Someone show me a vacuum cleaner full of encap crystals

[Bob Foster]

To eliminate pre-existing dirt, and zero in on "encap crystals" the test area would need to be prevacuumed and then post vacuumed as noted earlier, against an identical "control" area not encapped.

I prevac-ed the holy shit out of this carpet, until i didn't notice anything coming up. there was some dust bunnies and fuzz in the cup (stuff i dug out with the agitation of the cimex) and fibers from the scrub pads, that being said...

What I had on my hand was crystals. I wish you could have felt them. When you crumbled them between your fingers they were coarse, different from regular vacuum dirt because they weren't "dusty" and didnt leave residue on my fingers. In addition, they were brownish tinted instead of grayish like what I vacuumed yesterday when I prevacced.

Fair enough. I look forward to other experiments. Thanks.

 

[amazingcleansc]

David.........back away from the petri dish...............that is SAND in your vac container...................SAND.

ha. well quartz has a crystalline structure. you could tell this wasnt sand though. the pieces were kind of sticking to each other. i should have videoed it, i can already tell.

 

[Joe Bristor]

"But don't make scientific claims unless you can prove it."
Ofer, oh I can prove it but you are wrong in your claim that I have to.
Care to come to my office and sign a non-disclosure you're welcome to.
Care to see my MSDS it will say Trade Secret like other encap specialists'.

Without disclosing my sources let's do it this way...
Of any/all encap salesmen here can any attest to any of the polymers we use in our encaps as not what I say? siimilar to protectants, inert, basically harmless?

Then let's see what research you've done to show us you has a real concern for these matters; that you've compiled scientific evidence over your career as a cleaner out of concern for yours or others' health.
Else be it known you are just strirring an empty pot.

Ofer, my science goes back to the 80s but my real concern started in '1998 when after 12 years of this work I started feeling its effects.

I developed the first carpet cleaning formulation, determined and recognized as safe by the DfE, then a year later made it into encap form. I did it for me. It's all I've used since then. I also use a DfE safe solvent that works great on filtration soils, inks, adhesives, etc. DfE Safe.

What brands have you used that are DfE safe? Or do you really even care?
I'd bet you'd have no Health concerns using my Soils n Oils or its encap formulation.
But you'll get nowhere with me assuming I'm making any of this up from the getgo.

Prove your concern.
Hope a plane and see my work.
Else let's conclude you're just pointin a finger with 4 pointin back at you.
Prove me wrong stud.

How's my back?
Do you care?

Not that your bluff has fooled anybody but if you're really concerned,
my records are at:

10605 SE 240th St
Kent, WA 98031.

 

[Joe Bristor]

The stuff in my cup is similar but not exactly like Davids'.Mine is not fluffy like that, rather more like gray-dark gray fine grain 'dirt'
more like what you see at the very bottom of the bag.
The crystalline pictures most of you have seen is the full strength encap polymers right out of the jug, not yet introduced to soil. Even this will shatter to a fine powder with any physical effort. So forget about true crystallinity except the Hexagonal of the silica that David jokingly pointed out.
Forget vall that and just use the shit.
THEN tell us it's hype.
And if you're smart and not lazy, do it in alternation with hwe.
Even the lowest quality encaps will make you look good.

 

[ruff]

"
Offer,

The key is to use both to your best advantage, most of the time it is not cost effective because no matter what you use you will not able to remove all the soil including residue from the chems. You can prevac, pre spray, dwell, run your wand or rotovac w/ a glide, the carpets will "be" and "look" clean, however anyone w/ a wet or dry pad can go behind you and the pads will be soiled, depending on the condition of the carpet the pads can be really dirty even after you cleaned it with your method of choice. This shows that no matter what you use you still won't be able to retrieve all the chems that you sprayed, nor soil. This is even worse on cgd in nasty restaurants, I ran the Cimex w/ Powerburst, dwell, high flow wand, than post padded w/ DS Encap, and they were still black. But it did add a nice touch to the end results, only downside it took much longer, and restaurants don't want to pay anything.

I've done many tests using a Prochem Legend XL, an Everest, a Hydra 4.8 CDS, and an older AT, cleaned first using 2 in high flow wand, HX and LGH, rotovacs, drimaster, than post padded, some we did it with no encap juice(just put the pad down dry) and others we post sprayed and post padded(glad pads), same thing, medium to heavy soiled dirty pads.

So you're right looks ain't everything, but if the 2 combined, it will deff be and look cleaner, than just one doing it all.

Bill,
I totally agree. I could not have said it better.
I also post bonnet/pad and no matter how much pre-vacuuming and how much flushing it always get out more.
My issue is with the health and non residue claims.
And yes, looks do matter because that is what most clients judge us by. That is what they can actually see. But what you/me/the client can see, is not always all there is.

 

[ruff]

"But don't make scientific claims unless you can prove it."
Ofer, oh I can prove it but you are wrong in your claim that I have to.
Care to come to my office and sign a non-disclosure you're welcome to.
Care to see my MSDS it will say Trade Secret like other encap specialists'.

Without disclosing my sources let's do it this way...
Of any/all encap salesmen here can any attest to any of the polymers we use in our encaps as not what I say? siimilar to protectants, inert, basically harmless?

Then let's see what research you've done to show us you has a real concern for these matters; that you've compiled scientific evidence over your career as a cleaner out of concern for yours or others' health.
Else be it known you are just strirring an empty pot.

Ofer, my science goes back to the 80s but my real concern started in '1998 when after 12 years of this work I started feeling its effects.

I developed the first carpet cleaning formulation, determined and recognized as safe by the DfE, then a year later made it into encap form. I did it for me. It's all I've used since then. I also use a DfE safe solvent that works great on filtration soils, inks, adhesives, etc. DfE Safe.

What brands have you used that are DfE safe? Or do you really even care?
I'd bet you'd have no Health concerns using my Soils n Oils or its encap formulation.
But you'll get nowhere with me assuming I'm making any of this up from the getgo.

Prove your concern.
Hope a plane and see my work.
Else let's conclude you're just pointin a finger with 4 pointin back at you.
Prove me wrong stud.

How's my back?
Do you care?

Not that your bluff has fooled anybody but if you're really concerned,
my records are at:

10605 SE 240th St
Kent, WA 98031.

First, I don't sell a product. So, unlike you, I don't make claims I can not prove.

My claims as a cleaner regarding say: non-toxic, biodegredable etc; are totally based on what the manufacturer is willing to reveal. And what they are required to disclose in their MSDS sheet.

You know quite well that no cleaner actually tests their products toxicity in a lab. Dang, we are grateful if we have a good night sleep. What we do test are end results and that is were a board like this comes in really handy- a lot of feedback, and reading between the lines on whose information you can trust.

Also, there is no need for you to get hostile. What I said was not meant particularly for/against you. It is not personal. I actually like you, and people where I come from are kind of blunt like you. So, hey, it feels like home.

The question about your back was teasing you (you hot head ) And I do care. See I use your cool cuffs every day and they make me sweat a little less every day. So, I have an interest in you staying in good health and making some more good stuff to make my life easier in the future

P.S. I'm a little busy now. How about I sign that non disclosure and you mail it :|

I got confused. Where were those fingers pointing and how many exactly? It must be all my years of chemical exposure Iseeru

 

[Jimmy L]

S

 

[Lee Stockwell]

Welcome back Jimmy!!

 

[amazingcleansc]

A gallon of RTU encap shampoo spread out over an area of 300-500 sq ft doesn't have enough polymer to bind or attract any kind of soil.

Try it yourself with a RTU(Not concentrate out of the jug) encap solution and spray it into some sand or soil.

There will not be enough polymer to hold it together...........period.


Fraud


Gullible carpet cleaners

I was slightly concerned that i got less encap crystals out of the 500 sf of carpet than the dirt cup slam full of crystals I thought I would,

Then I got to thinking, I used (estimating) 2 gallons of rtu releasit ds and each gallon had mixed in 4 oz of releaseit ds concentrate.

That means I had 8 oz of releasit ds concentrate across the whole carpet, roughly. never tried it but for the sake of argument lets say 8 oz of releasit concentrate, when it dries, then it reduces in size to 4-6 ounces of crystalline structure.

Of what I vacuumed up, I would say that I picked up about 4-8 ounces of what I thought were "encap crystals" in the vacuum. I didn't know all of this controversy would be going on when i did it or i would have been more scientific about everything. The important part is this:

What I vacuumed the next day pretty closely approximates the amount of crystals the solution should make.

 

[Jimmy L]

.

 

[ruff]

We are gullible....
But friendly.

And we want to believe.

Anything else will be........

well.............
Un American.

 

[amazingcleansc]

I can see the "Blank Stare" of denial already when faced with the facts.

Shampooers are gullible to NewRocketsciencenanortechnologysnakeoilshampoo.

:shock:

horse. shit.

Aren't you supposed to be somewhere spending $20 an hour on fuel to make carpet look bad tomorrow?

 

[ruff]

$20.00 an hour on gas?!!

What is he running a Ferrari?

 

[Jimmy L]

.

 

[amazingcleansc]

1 smart year trumps 40 dumb ones. now go gas up for the day!

 

[ruff]

Who cares about 1 year in any trade.

I want your Ferrari!

 

[rhino1]

I am pretty sure my first year I pretty much knew everything but a couple of things that I assumed would just work themselves out.

Now after nearly 10 years I realize I don't know that much, what I think I do know will probably change tomorrow, and nearly everyone I have ever met can teach me something of value.... so keep an open mind and pay attention even when you are sure you are listening to an idiot.

 

[Lee Stockwell]

You all could learn a lot from Ladwig.

 

[ruff]

That's how he sounds after one year.

Imagine how he will sound after 20.

Brrrrrrrrrr.................. :shock: :shock: :shock: :shock: :shock: :shock: :shock:

 

[Doug Cox]

Anyone who thinks he knows all after 1 year, really is a dumbass. Hopefully he realizes this before he is in this for 20 years. Welcome back Jimmy.

 

[amazingcleansc]

I never claimed to know everything.

I was talking about LEARNING something new until someone chimed in at the 11th hour and called me a fraud.

Attempted to imply that I was an idiot too.

He was probably being sarcastic but don't dish it out if you cant take it.

 

[daniel@procarpet]

John Olson" data-source="" class="bbCodeBlock bbCodeBlock--expandable bbCodeBlock--quote js-expandWatch">

I used Prochem All Fiber Deep Clean once. The owner closed the business for a few days after cleaning. Then I get a call that there is powder everywhere in the carpet and it will not vacuum out. I rubbed my hand accross the carpet and sure enough there was dried powder in the carpet. It was no big deal and I told him it was supposed to do that to prevent resoiling etc. I am careful about using certain products. The polymer doesn't just vacuum out.

That wasn't the all fiber deep clean. What you experianced was carpet fresh. None of the products in the market from any manfactuer will leave a powdery residue. It has and ways will be carpet fresh or something similar.

The polymer residue was barely visible. You really could only see it if the carpet was rubbed etc. There was no carpet fresh etc and the customer vacuumed with a nice vacuum before I came out and attempted to vacuum it up. Maybe after a hundred vacuumings would it come out. It was the Olefin Deep Clean.

 

[Ryan]

You guys who have been cleaning for 20+ years and still have a one truck operation and net under 6 figures don't impress me at all.

 

[Lee Stockwell]

Some of us could give a rat's ass about impressing newbies... :-)

Forty years in December. Raised 5 great kids, a couple of foster kids. 3 of the boys have their own rigs now, one is a missionary, one is an engineer, all very happy and equally a source of pride to me and Theresa.


I'm happy.

Thanks,
Lee

 

[amazingcleansc]

John Olson" data-source="" class="bbCodeBlock bbCodeBlock--expandable bbCodeBlock--quote js-expandWatch">

I used Prochem All Fiber Deep Clean once. The owner closed the business for a few days after cleaning. Then I get a call that there is powder everywhere in the carpet and it will not vacuum out. I rubbed my hand accross the carpet and sure enough there was dried powder in the carpet. It was no big deal and I told him it was supposed to do that to prevent resoiling etc. I am careful about using certain products. The polymer doesn't just vacuum out.

That wasn't the all fiber deep clean. What you experianced was carpet fresh. None of the products in the market from any manfactuer will leave a powdery residue. It has and ways will be carpet fresh or something similar.

The polymer residue was barely visible. You really could only see it if the carpet was rubbed etc. There was no carpet fresh etc and the customer vacuumed with a nice vacuum before I came out and attempted to vacuum it up. Maybe after a hundred vacuumings would it come out. It was the Olefin Deep Clean.

I think different encap products dry very differently. the crystals from the releasit seemed bigger than the crystals from encapuclean

 

[John G.]

People if you want to KNOW something test for yourself, I always have, here are results from tests YEARS ago withPadCapRpo.

First check out he bag, see what it in it, the powder SHOULD be the color of dirt, however you can FEEL that it is a polymer loaded up with soil.


Then examine the powder under a microscope, it should be shards of polymer with dirt "INSIDE" IT.

 

[amazingcleansc]

how many square feet did it take you to get that giant pile of crystals?

 

[John G.]

150 square feet.

 

[amazingcleansc]

that seems like a lot of crystals for that small amount of carpet. How heavily did you apply the encap? and what was the product?

 

[John G.]

PadCapPro, and it was not sprayed as heavy as you might think, part polymer, part dirt in the polymer and always SOME extra dirt as well.