The HydraMaster CDS 4.6 & 4.8 Truckmounts are Fuel Misers and Wallet Friendly

[Mikey P]

    HydraMaster’s electronic speed control is engineered to work in conjunction with the Ford and Chevy engine control systems to optimize van fuel efficiency during CDS operation. It also enhances vacuum performance by as much as 30%. That provides you with all of the benefits of operating a direct drive CDS truckmounted unit – [...]

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[FB7777]

How does Hydramaster save more fuel than other direct drive units... Like Butlers for instance?

I could save fuel cost on my Butlers by slowing down the engine RPM but would sacrifice performance in the process.

I believe the real "savings" with operating a Hydramaster CDS is the space in the van

 

[ruff]

I am not sure if they have anything new, however you do get a lot of extra space in the van and the machine itself is very dependable.

Not sure about the engine of the van though. The two Fords that I used, one had gasket problems (that was a 90 Ford, supposedly a bad era for Fords) and the other was a 2002 that had some head gasket problems and the transmission died after about 7 years.
Not sure if that is a Ford or a HydraMaster issue.

I wonder if:
1) Others had some of the same issues with CDS?
2) Is it only Fords?
3) If butlers have those issues?

 

[Chris A]

I haven't had any engine issues with my chevy-ds', but the last one I sold needed a trans in it bad and it had about 100k on it.

 

[hogjowl]

I have always liked what I SEE in the Hyd. CDS units, but I have always wondered why I never HEAR anybody posting about owning one?

 

[The Great Oz]

I have always liked what I SEE in the Hyd. CDS units, but I have always wondered why I never HEAR anybody posting about owning one?

Maybe because they don't have 25-pound chrome grills or too large to be useful blowers? ...or because they don't have unresolvable isssues?

Lots of fleet sized companies like ours run the CDS. We like the reliability first, the extra space second and the lighter weight in the truck third. We don't have many issues with the units or due to using the truck engine as the unit power, but we buy a tow package to get larger coolers and a beefier electrical system, and run synthetic lubricants.

The problems we''ve seen with trucks have been truck manufacturer related. Although running the engine for cleaning might make some of those problems appear sooner than they would otherwise, they would eventually be a problem for anyone running those makes.

 

[ruff]

That is good to know about the tow package Bryan.
I've had 3 Cds and they are very good dependable machines that save a lot of space. With many years of proven record.

Do you have preference for Fords or Chevys or any other van manufacturer?
And if so, why?

 

[doylebloss]

In answer to Fred's question...
How does Hydramaster save more fuel than other direct drive units

The main way that it is done with the electronic speed control system and how it is engineered to work with Ford & GM engine control systems to optimize van fuel efficiency during CDS operation. It is a bit more complex than just slowing down the rpms to reduce fuel consumption. In addition, technically</SPAN> the ECS tries to stabilize the rpms (by communicating with the ECU) which allows the ECU to optimize its fuel trims</SPAN></SPAN>. That last sentence comes from the head of our Engineering department, Kurt Betton. </SPAN></SPAN>

 

[hogjowl]

I could tell a carpet cleaner didn't write it, for sure.

 

[Lyman]

A butler or a cds unit will burn the exact amount of fuel at a specific rpm. The installed rpm controll modules can only tell the trucks ecu what rpm to stay at. It is not like vawter leaning out a primary on a carburator to burn less fuel.

 

[The Great Oz]

Do you have preference for Fords or Chevys or any other van manufacturer?
And if so, why?

We use GMCs currently. They've been pretty reliable and with a full chrome package and shiny wheels the GMC has a nice look.

When we were shopping to replace the discontinued Dodge van, the GMC dealer had an actual fleet manager that knew more than just "the headlights are in the front" and quickly set us up with a fleet account similar to the one we had with Dodge. We could buy what we saw as a more advanced design for less money, so Ford lost out.

If anyone runs a Ford/CDS fleet, let us know how they're doing.

 

[FB7777]

A butler or a cds unit will burn the exact amount of fuel at a specific rpm. The installed rpm controll modules can only tell the trucks ecu what rpm to stay at. It is not like vawter leaning out a primary on a carburator to burn less fuel.

Take out Bloss's engineering jibber jabber and the answer to my question was there is no fuel savings over any other CDS

 

[ruff]

Bryan, are you using the CDS with Salsa (extra heat)?
If so, does it cause more maintenance or repair issues?

 

[idreadnought]

I have had a couple of cds units. Overall very reliable and less maintenance than my slide ins. I think that the reason fuel savings are noted is because Hydramaster overdrives the blower so the engine can spin slower. They also include multiple speed settings on the unit. If you are pre-spraying or doing upholstery then you can run the machine slower. Historically the speed was set by adjusting the throttle to a set rpm. Under load the machine would slow requiring the second pod to increase it a little bit. If these pods were not set perfect-ally then the engine would be running to fast or slow for optimum cleaning and fuel savings. The electronic speed control is like a cruise control allow precise engine speed.

As a side note, the speed control hydramaster uses is an off the shelf product that can be added to any pto machine running in a 2003 chevy or newer. Cost is about $300 and wiring is very easy.

Another note: There is a much higher percentage of companies that are running fleets using cds type machines. Thats a big reason you don't hear about them as much on a primarily OO board.

 

[The Great Oz]

Bryan, are you using the CDS with Salsa (extra heat)?
If so, does it cause more maintenance or repair issues?

We're using salsa units. You have to check them for lint build-up, but if you keep your tank clean this is a minor issue. I think we clean the internals maybe once in the lifespan of a unit.

 

[TomKing]

I just ordered a 4.8 CDS salsa unit with the pond and dual live solution lines.

We got it from Jon Don. They had a 3.89% 72 month loan promotion also. Mike Cushing in Roselle hooked us up.

We have a 2008 4.8CDS Salsa. I have a prochem we are selling and as soon as it is gone we will order another one.

The reliability, heat and production we get out of these are fantastic.

 

[Able 1]

What Prochem unit are you selling?

 

[TomKing]

What Prochem unit are you selling?

I have a 2012 Blazer in a 2001 Chevy with 66k miles
The Blazer has an electric reel and APO
Live solution line
It has 60 gallon tanks.

I bought the van last year from a company that kept it inside and used it for repair work. It is super clean. We put new tires on it.

 

[doylebloss]

Bryan and Tom - thanks for your kind words about your CDS units. Tom, glad Mike is taking such good care of you in Roselle.
Direct Drive units (HydraMaster CDS, Butler, Cleanco, now Sapphire) are extremely popular with fleets, whether they be large franchise or independent companies. Reliability and ease of training and operation are certainly a big part of it. We do have some large fleet customers that still prefer slide-ins (some large, some small), but the CDS unit has a 20+ track record, and with the Salsa add-on, they don't have to take a back seat to anything when it comes to power and heat except the very largest slide-ins.
Fuel consumption is one of the most often discussed items when someone is considering a CDS for the first time. That is why it is great to hear the experiences of people who own one or more.

 

[cu]

Will the cds be going in the new full size transit from ford , ...on another note when will the new / redesign rx20 be coming out To play

 

[bob vawter]

It is not like vawter leaning out a primary on a carburator

not only that but i used small marine holley 2 barrel boat carbs on the 302's...... lik i sED before .8 gal per working hr............

opps how did THAT secret slip out?

 

[ruff]

Also, with the current CDS will the mixed chemical and water go through the pump (like in mine) or will the chemicals be mixed as a last stage, passed the pump?

 

[Chris A]

Also, with the current CDS will the mixed chemical and water go through the pump (like in mine) or will the chemicals be mixed as a last stage, passed the
pump?

I'm not sure what year your cds is but my 04 and now my 09 cds 4.8 s both have last step pumps, I hear the newest ones use the general pump/pulse pump. Mine has a cat 3cp

 

[ruff]

2002
And yes, they last a reasonable amount of time.
And good to know that they have a last step pumps.

 

[doylebloss]

Updating some questions...

Is the CDS</SPAN></SPAN>

</SPAN>be going in the new full size transit from ford?</SPAN></SPAN>
Unfortunately the new uni-body chassis obstructs us from using our driveshaft setup. As a result we will not be continuing production of Ford CDS units for the new vans. </SPAN>


Will the current CDS</SPAN></SPAN>

</SPAN>will the mixed chemical and water go through the pump (like in mine) or will the chemicals be mixed as a last stage, passed the pump?</SPAN>
Our CDS units use last step chemical injection as well.

</SPAN></SPAN></SPAN>When will the new / redesign rx20 be coming out To play?
The RX-20 remains a big seller for us. There is no major redesign of the RX-20 on the immediate horizon. We are always looking at ways to improve the existing platform and tool. All on-going improvements are designed so that they can be retrofitted to previous units.

 

[The Great Oz]

Doyle,
Since GM will be bringing their Eurovan here if the Ford Transit sells well, would that leave only Nissan as a viable alternative for van-driven units? Is Nissan on board with a CDS installation?

(We're buying a couple of CDS in GMCs right now, and if the Savana is cancelled we'll stock up on them before they disappear.)

 

[Dale]

Hi guys:

I don’t understand Hydramasters point. Butler, & Cleanco also have been using electronic speed controls for years (vs. vacuum pull offs). In fact they are NOT even mounting them on the vans, GM did that for them about 2003 (except for the switch). So they are just saving money by using them. However, I'm not so sure I don't like the vacuums better, because they start more gradual.

But that’s not what save gas-the newer style motors, and pulley ratios are. And I have switched pulleys on Butlers to save even more gas.

Yes Hydramaster (and Cleanco) have excellant shape designs, but personally I like Butler best because they are lifetime S.S. not prone to rot aluminum. And they are "unchanged" design. In fact I am in the process of replacing 2 of them in low mileage vans for sale right now. We rebuild all of the moving parts- and presto it's like a whole new unit.

Sincerely,
Dale

 

[ruff]

The issue that I have with the Butlers (and no I have never used one) is: Once they put all their stuff in, there is hardly any room left in the van.

I carry a lot of extra equipment, chemicals, rugs etc, in my van and would have seriously considered them, had they offered some space saving design.

Unless they start offering that, I will never be able to use them.

 

[Total_Rookie]

View attachment 1450
View attachment 1451View attachment 1452

Great topic, I looked at a low mi 26k mi cali van today, that had rust on the van frame. (Side where CDs exhaust from) Would you be concerned? Also minor rust at door track. 4.8 CDS has 1000 est hrs.

Would you pass or entertain the 20k thought?

 

[Dale]

Ofer:

One of the Butlers that we just rebuilt, was installed in a 2000 Chevy extended van. The van has 70,000 (never had a cleaning unit) miles. The Butler has the 210 gallon waste tank. We built custom shelves and installed a 48” wide van top-bottom tool box. The custom shelf holds 5 full-sized carpet dryers + misc. and the toolbox holds anything that a Cleaner would possibly need. And there is an isle in the center still large enough to hold 3 large LGR dehumidifiers. The only thing not actually Butler design is; we pushed the vac tank forward a bit so that it does not set left of the side door-allowing a little more room in back and easier lining up the hose on the reel. I can furnish pictures.
<o
Joe:

That Hydramaster is pre-overdriven-before 2000. What I mean by that is, it will never get economical gas usage while cleaning because the machine runs 1-1 RPM with the vans motor. We have also rebuilt a few of those, and I would pass on it unless it is dirt cheap.

Sincerely,
Dale </o