Trio - Any reviews yet? Randy?
- Thread starter Derek
- Start date
Bought one in November and so far so good.
well built, out performs my old Procaps machine hands down. Use it primarily for interim cleaning between HWE. Very low spray output is my only concern. Don't think it would compare with cimex though. Pricey but no regrets.
Larry Cobb
Member
Derek;
The meaningful comparison would be between . . . .
1. The 20" two brush machine (Brush Pro/whitaker)
&
2. the 20" Trio machine
Larry
The meaningful comparison would be between . . . .
1. The 20" two brush machine (Brush Pro/whitaker)
&
2. the 20" Trio machine
Larry
so Brush Pro is aka whittaker, i didn't know.
so Larry is the BP recommended from all mills, or only 1 or 2?
i'm just looking for a VLM machine that won't void a mill warranty...if that is even possible. i imagined CRI "approved" list meant all mills approved, i am starting to think i am wrong in that assessment.
so Larry is the BP recommended from all mills, or only 1 or 2?
i'm just looking for a VLM machine that won't void a mill warranty...if that is even possible. i imagined CRI "approved" list meant all mills approved, i am starting to think i am wrong in that assessment.
Larry Cobb
Member
Derek;
In general, Shaw and other carpet manufacturers like Cylindrical Brush machines.
Shaw stipulates that NO rotary brushes or rotary bonnets should be used:
The contention was that "rotary action" could untwist the yarn bundle, and lessen the service life.
Not a legal entanglement that I would want to get involved with.
Good reason to utilize cylindrical brush machines,
as Shaw and other manufacturers have indicated.
"We at Shaw Industries believe that the use of Bridgepoint products as part of a proper maintenance process (or program) will help insure that your carpet meets your highest expectations. We highly recommend the use of their low moisture system with a cylindrical brushing machine called Brush Pro for interim maintenance . . ."
--Charlie Rollins; Director of Product Support, Shaw Industries, Inc.
Shaw release:
SHAW DOES NOT RECOMMEND!
"Bonnet" Systems:
The name for these systems is derived from the rotating
bonnet of terry cloth or other absorbent material
used to agitate the pile and pick up soil. A detergent
solution is sprayed onto the pile, and is then worked
with the bonnet attached to a rotary floor polisher. It is at best a temporary appearance enhancement
because it only absorbs at the surface
and does no real extraction of deep soil.
SHAW DOES NOT
ADVOCATE THIS SYSTEM.
It is not a substitute for hot water extraction.
It has very limited capability for soil removal and often leaves most of the detergent in the pile. The
spinning bonnet may distort the pile of cut pile
carpets and leave distinct swirl marks.
SHAW’S EXPERIENCE HAS
BEEN THAT MORE CUSTOMER
SOILING COMPLAINTS RESULT
FROM THIS SYSTEM THAN ALL OTHER CAUSES COMBINED!
The bonnet system may damage the edges of some carpet tiles.
http://www.shawcontractgroup.com/Content/LiteraturePDFs/maintenance_pdf/MaintenanceGuidelines-9-08.pdf
Larry
In general, Shaw and other carpet manufacturers like Cylindrical Brush machines.
Shaw stipulates that NO rotary brushes or rotary bonnets should be used:
The contention was that "rotary action" could untwist the yarn bundle, and lessen the service life.
Not a legal entanglement that I would want to get involved with.
Good reason to utilize cylindrical brush machines,
as Shaw and other manufacturers have indicated.
"We at Shaw Industries believe that the use of Bridgepoint products as part of a proper maintenance process (or program) will help insure that your carpet meets your highest expectations. We highly recommend the use of their low moisture system with a cylindrical brushing machine called Brush Pro for interim maintenance . . ."
--Charlie Rollins; Director of Product Support, Shaw Industries, Inc.
Shaw release:
SHAW DOES NOT RECOMMEND!
"Bonnet" Systems:
The name for these systems is derived from the rotating
bonnet of terry cloth or other absorbent material
used to agitate the pile and pick up soil. A detergent
solution is sprayed onto the pile, and is then worked
with the bonnet attached to a rotary floor polisher. It is at best a temporary appearance enhancement
because it only absorbs at the surface
and does no real extraction of deep soil.
SHAW DOES NOT
ADVOCATE THIS SYSTEM.
It is not a substitute for hot water extraction.
It has very limited capability for soil removal and often leaves most of the detergent in the pile. The
spinning bonnet may distort the pile of cut pile
carpets and leave distinct swirl marks.
SHAW’S EXPERIENCE HAS
BEEN THAT MORE CUSTOMER
SOILING COMPLAINTS RESULT
FROM THIS SYSTEM THAN ALL OTHER CAUSES COMBINED!
The bonnet system may damage the edges of some carpet tiles.
http://www.shawcontractgroup.com/Content/LiteraturePDFs/maintenance_pdf/MaintenanceGuidelines-9-08.pdf
Larry
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Desk Jockey
Member
Larry I can see where the old CRBs are decent at maintenance cleaning but I think there are much better systems for corrective. If the Trio is no better than the old school units, where does that leave us for corrective cleaning without a warranty breaking Cimex ?
HWE again?
HWE again?
billyeadon
Supportive Member
Mr. Holiday,
I think the idea of invoking the warranty has been overplayed. As it states in Shaws warranty above they discourage (strongly) the use of any rotary system for their carpet but their lawyers prevent them from actually making any warranty claim. They realize that it would keep them tied up in court forever and then it would set a precedent when they couldn't prove it. Kind of like when you were a kid and your mom told you that eating chocolate chip dough would give you worms. I bet you ate it anyway and never had a problem. My mom told me that I would never grow tall if I ate it. Boy did I fool her.
By the way Collins & Aikman (Tandus) does state that you void the warranty using a Cimex but they are the only mill I know that states that.
Your friend,
Wyatt Yeadon
I think the idea of invoking the warranty has been overplayed. As it states in Shaws warranty above they discourage (strongly) the use of any rotary system for their carpet but their lawyers prevent them from actually making any warranty claim. They realize that it would keep them tied up in court forever and then it would set a precedent when they couldn't prove it. Kind of like when you were a kid and your mom told you that eating chocolate chip dough would give you worms. I bet you ate it anyway and never had a problem. My mom told me that I would never grow tall if I ate it. Boy did I fool her.
By the way Collins & Aikman (Tandus) does state that you void the warranty using a Cimex but they are the only mill I know that states that.
Your friend,
Wyatt Yeadon
ruff
Member
Bill, you ignore one basic question: Should the decision to use a process that may void the warranty be made by the cleaner without the owner's (of the carpet) knowledge and agreement, or should it be the owner's decision?
Your fable, which may be very practical, seem to suggest that we ignore the warranty and go against manufacturer's recommendation. Stated or not, that means that all liabilities will be on the cleaner. Not a great position to be in.
The height may be related to the hormones in the beef Bill.
and your mom was right, them cookies were not too good for you.
Your fable, which may be very practical, seem to suggest that we ignore the warranty and go against manufacturer's recommendation. Stated or not, that means that all liabilities will be on the cleaner. Not a great position to be in.
The height may be related to the hormones in the beef Bill.
and your mom was right, them cookies were not too good for you.
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Desk Jockey
Member
No actually Bill I got worms.
I'll forward this on to my attorney for review Wyatt!
Thanks Bill!
I'll forward this on to my attorney for review Wyatt!
Thanks Bill!
thanks Bill.
i wonder how it is that Randy posted that there are CC'ers currently being sued because of bonnet cleaning a carpet and voiding it's warranty, if what you say is true?
or are the story's Randy gave, the CC'ers are being sued by their client, not the mill?
billyeadon
Supportive Member
Ofer,
I will answer your question with a question maybe 2. What percentage of carpet is installed by standards CRI 104 105? If the carpet is not installed (such as using a power stretcher on a stretch in carpet) by standards and it voids the warranty, is there even a warranty on the carpet when we clean it?
I really believe that there is more of an issue with crappy chemicals than there is with a rotary machine when used properly. And (OK maybe 3 questions) is a Cimex really a rotary machine?
I will answer your question with a question maybe 2. What percentage of carpet is installed by standards CRI 104 105? If the carpet is not installed (such as using a power stretcher on a stretch in carpet) by standards and it voids the warranty, is there even a warranty on the carpet when we clean it?
I really believe that there is more of an issue with crappy chemicals than there is with a rotary machine when used properly. And (OK maybe 3 questions) is a Cimex really a rotary machine?
Bill, you ignore one basic question: Should the decision to use a process that may void the warranty be made by the cleaner without the owner's (of the carpet) knowledge and agreement, or should it be the owner's decision?
Your fable, which may be very practical, seem to suggest that we ignore the warranty and go against manufacturer's recommendation. Stated or not, that means that all liabilities will be on the cleaner. Not a great position to be in.
The height may be related to the hormones in the beef Bill.
and your mom was right, them cookies were not too good for you.
JeffC
Member
Many of the warranties also mention a regular maintenance program which most facilities don’t have. It’s the end user that will ultimately have to pay for the cleaning and not the mill. Therefore I’d say the biggest problem isn’t the method being used but rather the lack of ANYTHING being done. I only clean commercial and I see this every day. Many mills also recommend protective chair pads under desks, how many follow this? In my building I’d say less than 10%. This will result in significant damage to the carpet.
If the carpet performs and looks great, the customer isn’t usually going to complain. Not to pick on the janitorial companies but they’re in the building every night cleaning the buildings. We blow in every few months (or years) and clean the carpet. What do you think the chances are that the carpet has been bonneted before you clean it? I’d say extremely high, at least when they spot the carpet.
I’d say the warranty issue is usually way overblown .If you’re worried about it use a cylindrical brush machines. But if you really want great results, on most commercial level loop glue down carpet anyway, use a cimex.
Bottom line is the mill wants their carpet to look good. That makes everyone happy.
JC
Not to mention any names but I've heard too many girly drinks at starbucks can have an adverse affect on ones height.
If the carpet performs and looks great, the customer isn’t usually going to complain. Not to pick on the janitorial companies but they’re in the building every night cleaning the buildings. We blow in every few months (or years) and clean the carpet. What do you think the chances are that the carpet has been bonneted before you clean it? I’d say extremely high, at least when they spot the carpet.
I’d say the warranty issue is usually way overblown .If you’re worried about it use a cylindrical brush machines. But if you really want great results, on most commercial level loop glue down carpet anyway, use a cimex.
Bottom line is the mill wants their carpet to look good. That makes everyone happy.
JC
Not to mention any names but I've heard too many girly drinks at starbucks can have an adverse affect on ones height.
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Desk Jockey
Member
My lawyer will be in contact with you also Mr Jeff!
billyeadon
Supportive Member
Well I was going to add a thank you to the fine post of Mr. C until that snarky comment at the end. I think he has been hanging with the Island Boy too much.
JeffC
Member
No problem Chavez. I have a cylindrical brush machine and a CRI approved Rug Doctor back at the shop… just in case. 
Bill, I'll always look up to you!
Bill, I'll always look up to you!
Desk Jockey
Member
Rug Doctor? 
waiting for a call back from some gal at Whittaker to talk about the details of demo'ing a Trio (like if me or them pay for shipping costs possibly both ways.) they're about a 5 hour drive from me if that will save me any shipping costs. i'll post the demo details as i learn'em.
JeffC
Member
<o
Chavez,
You have WAY too much time on your hands.
</o
Chavez,
You have WAY too much time on your hands.
</o
Desk Jockey
Member
Hey I just finished payroll and I finished coloring my eggs so I had a bit of time to spare!
billyeadon
Supportive Member
much better, I will be looking for a free Sumatra next trip.
Shane Deubell
Supportive Member
- Joined
- Jun 30, 2011
- Messages
- 4,052
ruff
Member
Bill, I do understand the practicality of it. I know that if one informs the client about these issues, they may choose another company that will not. I also assume most carpets are not installed to CRI 104 105 standards and if need be, everybody will try to pass the liability somewhere else.
It still may boil down to who's going to be liable if the issue is raised and whose business is most at risk. If it does happen, most small businesses may be financially wiped out, even those whose insurance policy does cover workmanship, as they will not be covered due to warranty violation.
Ethically and practically, I prefer that the owner make that decision.
However, I have and peruse, very little commercial work.
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KevinL
Supportive Member
Coloring your eggs? Is that like choking your chicken? haha
We do a lot of work in the Pentagon. When the Federal Government is well enough versed in carpet warranties to put a clause in the contract that the contractor has been provided with a copy of the warranty and will not do anything to void it , that tells me that change is here folks. People involved with selling OP systems, rotary scrubbers and Cimexs or teaching classes that showcase the OVER TRUMPED CIMEX for companies selling them , of course will not want this dirty little secret getting out. The contract specifically states that bonnet systems or scrubbing pads will be used on hard surfaces only. We have been using Cimex systems there for years. The hilarious thing is HOST is specifically mentioned as being permissible, LOL. Can you imagine the truck load of compound you would need to clean the largest office building in the world. There are multiple contractors in here everyday and all of us together couldn't even carry it in. You have to park 130 yards away and transport everything through security checkpoints. Thank God for Rubbermaid commercial carts, the one with the balloon wheels is a life saver. The warranty issue isn't just one manufacturer, either. There is a contractor here that cleans over a million square feet of commercial carpet every night. They own a couple hundred Whittiakers and over a 100 steamin Demons. They sold their Cimex fleet three years ago due to warranty issues. Mark my words the issue is real. Obviously some work cant be HWE profitably but I may end up buying a Mytee ETM on wheels to close the gap. I could wheel it in, set up while someone is pres praying and agitating with a CRB and then rinse with an encap rinse. It will take longer and be a pain but the days of showing up with Cimexs and making a fast buck is over on this job.
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i take it you have an issue with Cimex from a couple of your posts. why is that? you almost seem to have the venom for it that you have for the trinty.
i don't see how you can mock it's ability in the field. Host, sure. Cimex, nah.
spoke with Joe @ Whittaker and he says you get to demo the Trio for 14 days and if you like it, they then process your credit card and send you the remaining gallons of Crystal Dry Extra. if you don't like the only thing you have to pay for is return shipping.
they also have a Peroxide booster called Oxy Boost which is cool that they are staying in line with other encap manu's.
i'm glad you brought the Trio up Randy. options are good!
they also have a Peroxide booster called Oxy Boost which is cool that they are staying in line with other encap manu's.
i'm glad you brought the Trio up Randy. options are good!
Desk Jockey
Member
That doesn't sound like a bad deal. Are you going to try her out?
If you do I think I'll wait to see what you have to say before I even try it out.
If you do I think I'll wait to see what you have to say before I even try it out.
Royal Man
Member
Most commercial carpets have had their warranties invalidated long before they call you.
Mardie
Member
You are correct. But if a facility takes this warranty issue to heart because of the potential damage these rotaries may cause ( which I think is bs) They may also insist that their CC program be carried out with the same cautions as a warrantied carpet.
