Dolly Llama
Number 5
Shawn York said:
OOOOOPPS
Honest to God I didn't know I locked it.
It certainly wasn't intentional.
You're GOOD comedy 'round chere :mrgreen:
..L.T.A.
Vortex thread locked-first I've seen that!
- Thread starter Ron Werner
- Start date
OOOOOPPS
Honest to God I didn't know I locked it.
It certainly wasn't intentional.
You're GOOD comedy 'round chere :mrgreen:
..L.T.A.
Dolly Llama
Number 5
Rex Tyus said:
while I was out mowing the grass this evening,
I wondered just how much more grass I could cut with my 48" mowing deck if it only had a diesel instead of gas engine.
No, the belts weren't slipping, nor the engine bogging down, and I was moving as fast at the tractor could go.
But Shawn said a diesel motor makes a big difference in spinning a same blower compared to gas motor.
I'm not a fizziks major or injinear, but figuired if it works for blowers like Shawn said, it otta work for my lawn tractor too..
..L.T.A.
Fon Johnson
Member
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G
Guest
Guest
Here is a question,if I put a #6 on my machine in a box van with a 350000 btu heater,can I clean like a vortex? probably (no definatly ) hotter. It is a component thing,and of coarse I can.
Kevin
Kevin
Jim Bethel
Member
meAt,
I always like your posts and use of illustrations. The mower is a good one.
I am going to get my popcorn now and sit back. Should be entertaining.
Jim
I always like your posts and use of illustrations. The mower is a good one.
I am going to get my popcorn now and sit back. Should be entertaining.
Jim
Dolly Llama
Number 5
Jim Bethel said:
Thanks for the flowers, Jim.
I'll return some flowers by saying I LOVE your TM set ups.
The ergonomics, the efficient use of space and over all set is quite impressive.
Truely some of the best I've ever seen
as far as Yapps, he may not believe it, but i actually like the guy
(not in a "Danny" way of coarse) :mrgreen:
it's some of the statements he makes that has me bewildered :roll: :roll:
Shawn York wrote:
but blowers behave VERY differently when powered by diesel. A diesel 75 hp motor and a gasoline 75 hp motor will make the same exact blower produce very different CFM and Hg's. Your big brawny 6008 would not be nearly so tough if it were being turned by a 75 hp or even a 100 hp gas engine.
.
How does that happen, Yapps?
If the belts aren't slipping from grease dropping on them
(like happens with some of the V/ATs)
or the gas engine is sufficient or over capacity HP for the blower and pump, what's the difference?
Now don't get me wrong, I understand a little about torque curves and diesels.
I also understand plumbing restrictions, so no need to go there.
But a blower is a blower.
If it's spinning at X RPM and not slipping or bogging down, it doessn't know the difference of what's driving it
share your pretZel loGiC fizziks with me
..L.T.A.
F
FB7777
Guest
t]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hN5SCRvhMtkt]
Blue Monarch
Supportive Member
That's it, I'm going out to the boxxer and adding some digits to the temp knob.
Brian R
Member
Dirk Wingrove said:
Damn, we can do that?
:?
Fon Johnson
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admiralclean said:
I don't know about that. I have thought about it, but it just does not fit my business model. The machine is NOT for everyone. The only logical argument I have ever seen for it is dual wanding, and I can do that with Duane's split steam and save a lot of money. Or I could just put a machine in two trucks that could dual wand on one location, or go their seperate ways.
Brian R
Member
I have to agree, as bad ass as the v is, I don't think I would have one. But that is just because of my business model as well. The image (which I focus on mainly) would be a step up with the V but I think I can accomplish that with what I have...almost.
I wouldn't dual wand with one truck and I can have 2 set ups like I have now for the price of a V and make more money...I believe...because of it.
My total rig is right at $40,000.00 not including financing.
WM Commander HO, all the reels, tanks, floor wand, turbo hybrid, hoses and installation in a 07' 2500 GMC Cargo Van with air, power window and doors.
I can carry some air movers or whatever I need to clean carpets and tile.
I don't think any other set up would out do by too much unless you build it yourself.
I wouldn't dual wand with one truck and I can have 2 set ups like I have now for the price of a V and make more money...I believe...because of it.
My total rig is right at $40,000.00 not including financing.
WM Commander HO, all the reels, tanks, floor wand, turbo hybrid, hoses and installation in a 07' 2500 GMC Cargo Van with air, power window and doors.
I can carry some air movers or whatever I need to clean carpets and tile.
I don't think any other set up would out do by too much unless you build it yourself.
SRI Cleaning
Member
Fon Johnson said:
Thats a good point. Every one is so concerned with dual wanding. I am just curious, has anyone ever put two slide ins in a box truck? I am not trying to start an argument. i am just wondering if anyone has ever done it.
captaincarpet
Member
As someone who went from a Hydramaster 4.8 cds w/salsa to a AeroTech, the production is better with a single wand than the HM... due to increased flow, vacuum, and heat. Dual wand the production is of course greatly improved.
Just for you math majors out there, how can you buy a custom box truck for 40+thousand dollars, and put 2-20K plus machines in it, then power vacuum reels, 220 gal fresh tank, dual live solution reels, and still do it for less than a V? (and Duanes machines will not give you scortching heat).
As a side note: I bet the 2 slide in's will consume more gas than a V, greatly increase weight in the box affecting the truck gas milage as well, not to mention GVW and carrying capacity for fresh water, fan's and floor space etc. will be deminished as well.
This is just the beginning of the list we compiled when we were making the decision to go "BIG".
No one machine of any type is right for everyone, and only you can decide which machine fits your business, but why does it seem everyone with a "Smaller unit" say the big truck is a waste without ever doing the full comparison from vehicle expected life and repairs to production? Perhaps they are afraid if they did, they too would join the ranks of "BIG" truck owners. IMHO
Just for you math majors out there, how can you buy a custom box truck for 40+thousand dollars, and put 2-20K plus machines in it, then power vacuum reels, 220 gal fresh tank, dual live solution reels, and still do it for less than a V? (and Duanes machines will not give you scortching heat).
As a side note: I bet the 2 slide in's will consume more gas than a V, greatly increase weight in the box affecting the truck gas milage as well, not to mention GVW and carrying capacity for fresh water, fan's and floor space etc. will be deminished as well.
This is just the beginning of the list we compiled when we were making the decision to go "BIG".
No one machine of any type is right for everyone, and only you can decide which machine fits your business, but why does it seem everyone with a "Smaller unit" say the big truck is a waste without ever doing the full comparison from vehicle expected life and repairs to production? Perhaps they are afraid if they did, they too would join the ranks of "BIG" truck owners. IMHO
TimP
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I say the jury is still out on the genesis dxt. And seriously why would I buy a new box truck when I drive like 8,000 miles a year. Especially if I'm not runnin the TM off of it. You can get a used one with around 100,000 miles for under 20 grand. 27 grand for genesis, 8 grand for reels etc (estimated) 20 grand for the used cab over. Right at 55 grand compared to 90 grand for a vortex......
Chris Muetterties
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That maybe the DUMBEST compairison I have ever seen.........................
A used box truck with 100K with a Genesis to a new Vortex............
ROFLMAO
TimP
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Laugh all you want. Just wait till Walt can give us a review of the DXT....diesel genesis. He has used/owned a vortex and can give us a really good review. Also the Titan has had a good review coming from someone who has owned a Vortex. All you guys with vortexes need not laugh unless you can say with 100% certainty....thus using both machines that your mighty Vortex is so much greater than these machines. I have yet to see anyone that has done a real comparison.
The only thing I can see that you may think is better is the waste tank and for me that's a non factor as I don't have retarded rules for dumping where I work.
The only thing I can see that you may think is better is the waste tank and for me that's a non factor as I don't have retarded rules for dumping where I work.
Not that i care much, but if you are gonna do the Vortex vs: two slide in machine comparison, you should cite HX models and at least a #4 blower, fuel burners aren't even an option for the Vortex candidate.
Just a detail I thought worth mentioning.
I will say the redundancy of having a separate back up unit, or the option to cut fuel consumption in half is pretty attractive to some guys.
Also many here assume "todays" #4 blower machine, complete with tweaks and pimps, this wouldn't be true if you used a 10 yr. old standard of what is acceptable or expected.
Just a detail I thought worth mentioning.
I will say the redundancy of having a separate back up unit, or the option to cut fuel consumption in half is pretty attractive to some guys.
Also many here assume "todays" #4 blower machine, complete with tweaks and pimps, this wouldn't be true if you used a 10 yr. old standard of what is acceptable or expected.
Chris Muetterties
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I can't wait to get a report from Walt from a guy who has owned both not from a guy that works on theory.
Not only on comparison of performance but after both slides have 2000 hours on them too.
Not only on comparison of performance but after both slides have 2000 hours on them too.
Fon Johnson
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Overkill and BS.
Why the heck doesn't someone just pick up where Prochem left off with the jet engine TM? You can't compare a fuel burner? Why not? Because of the cost of the fuel? Which is simpler to work on? What do the parts cost? And who says Duane's machines don't get as hot? I've seen his hit 300 and keep climbing. My LITTLE machine has hit 265 through open hose.
AND, I don't care what you say.. Mrs. Jones is not going to walk out into the rain and get a woody looking at my machine. Mrs. Jones wants clean carpet without being bothered.
Why the heck doesn't someone just pick up where Prochem left off with the jet engine TM? You can't compare a fuel burner? Why not? Because of the cost of the fuel? Which is simpler to work on? What do the parts cost? And who says Duane's machines don't get as hot? I've seen his hit 300 and keep climbing. My LITTLE machine has hit 265 through open hose.
AND, I don't care what you say.. Mrs. Jones is not going to walk out into the rain and get a woody looking at my machine. Mrs. Jones wants clean carpet without being bothered.
I say fuel burner cause that is what my customers say. " I don't want a flame in my truck".
It's not MY opinion.
Keep in mind, I HAD a flame in my truck (and a HX) it didn't bother me personally.
And all this talk about who had the bigger LP heater is stupid, it's a g'damn pressure washing heater for crying out loud, who cares, just buy the size you Think you need, I never understoood TM mfgs that put fuel burners on their rigs and think it's something special?
It's not MY opinion.
Keep in mind, I HAD a flame in my truck (and a HX) it didn't bother me personally.
And all this talk about who had the bigger LP heater is stupid, it's a g'damn pressure washing heater for crying out loud, who cares, just buy the size you Think you need, I never understoood TM mfgs that put fuel burners on their rigs and think it's something special?
hogjowl
Idiot™
Fon Johnson said:
Fon ... I don't think "Mrs. Jones has much chance of getting a woody if she walks out in the rain with you. LOL!
Fon Johnson
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admiralclean said:
That was just a figure of speech, Mort.. But you already knew that. :roll:
So the Vortex is the only h/e machine capable of getting hot? You know I have always been a proponent of high heat, but it does become overkill at a certain point. My beef is with the guys acting like a vortex is the ONLY machine produced that can squirt a lot of really hot water, and then suck it up. Where is Ken Harris and his 100 cfm w/c interface theory when you need him?
captaincarpet
Member
As far as I know, the Aero Tech gets hotter faster than the V, and maintains slightly higher temperatures.
Duane has been showing HX machines on the boards for months and while I personally like Duane a LOT, I do not remember his HX machines getting near 250 degrees. If you are talking about his fuel burners ... then there is a whole different ballgame with ADDITIONAL costs, weight, fuel, and space constraints for starters.
Let me see... 2 machines, 2 fresh water tanks, waste water tank, 2 fuel burning heaters, Fuel tanks for heaters, additional fuel costs, maintenance costs, floor space, when do you realize the comparison does not compute on many different levels?
Like:
Floor space
Weight
Cost per hour
Simplicity of repair
Maintenance (2 machines and box truck)
If you take a deeper look, even if it’s not right for you, the V or AT make sense for many individuals/companies... and who are you or anyone else for that matter to say what works for you is the only way?
I know I'm playing the Devil’s advocate, and I have the audacity to own a "BIG" truck too... but this is my opinion
Thomas L. Cermak
888-566-1119
Duane has been showing HX machines on the boards for months and while I personally like Duane a LOT, I do not remember his HX machines getting near 250 degrees. If you are talking about his fuel burners ... then there is a whole different ballgame with ADDITIONAL costs, weight, fuel, and space constraints for starters.
Let me see... 2 machines, 2 fresh water tanks, waste water tank, 2 fuel burning heaters, Fuel tanks for heaters, additional fuel costs, maintenance costs, floor space, when do you realize the comparison does not compute on many different levels?
Like:
Floor space
Weight
Cost per hour
Simplicity of repair
Maintenance (2 machines and box truck)
If you take a deeper look, even if it’s not right for you, the V or AT make sense for many individuals/companies... and who are you or anyone else for that matter to say what works for you is the only way?
I know I'm playing the Devil’s advocate, and I have the audacity to own a "BIG" truck too... but this is my opinion
Thomas L. Cermak
888-566-1119
Duane Oxley
Moon Unit
For the record...
As much as I'd like to see 250 ATW in the HX systems I build, I have my doubts about achieving it with the Nemesis and air- cooled engines.
I could be wrong here. But I won't know for a fact until the next one is built. There are a couple more "tweaks" I've designed into it, that should produce more heat, but only time will tell.
Currently, a 25/45 is delivering 203 ATW, but it's not constant. Constant is more like 190 ATW. (That's at 600 PSI through a #6 jet equivalent.) My preference is higher, so I'll continue to work toward that result. A 27 / 47 Nemesis would probably deliver more heat, but running that through a Nemesis exhaust system will take a major accommodation that I haven't spec'd in yet and don't plan to for the time being.
What I do expect to gain reliably, is another 20 degrees, putting the constant output into the realm of 220 ATW (240 to 250 ATM), which is pretty decent, I think . (This is because the current temp of the exchanger-tank is 120, 20 degrees shy of the target 140, and I know how to correct that.)
When the next one is complete, with the tweaks in place, I'll test it thoroughly and report the results.
One thing I will do, is report ATM temperatures, both in and out, and the jet size and pressure at the jet. That way, it's more in terms of figures that actually mean something to most people. I see ATW as ultimately what matters. But, since no one else states their performance ATW, for me to do so, is handicapping my own results by at least 20 degrees- more like 30.
Anyway, that's the current state of things, regarding the pinnacle of my HX designs.
Very soon after the move (we're moving Thursday), I'm planning to design the "Elite", now that the Nemesis is for all intents and purposes, "done". The Elite will be water- cooled, have 2 blowers and deliver enough heat for both to run at 240 or better, each, and simultaneously.
As much as I'd like to see 250 ATW in the HX systems I build, I have my doubts about achieving it with the Nemesis and air- cooled engines.
I could be wrong here. But I won't know for a fact until the next one is built. There are a couple more "tweaks" I've designed into it, that should produce more heat, but only time will tell.
Currently, a 25/45 is delivering 203 ATW, but it's not constant. Constant is more like 190 ATW. (That's at 600 PSI through a #6 jet equivalent.) My preference is higher, so I'll continue to work toward that result. A 27 / 47 Nemesis would probably deliver more heat, but running that through a Nemesis exhaust system will take a major accommodation that I haven't spec'd in yet and don't plan to for the time being.
What I do expect to gain reliably, is another 20 degrees, putting the constant output into the realm of 220 ATW (240 to 250 ATM), which is pretty decent, I think . (This is because the current temp of the exchanger-tank is 120, 20 degrees shy of the target 140, and I know how to correct that.)
When the next one is complete, with the tweaks in place, I'll test it thoroughly and report the results.
One thing I will do, is report ATM temperatures, both in and out, and the jet size and pressure at the jet. That way, it's more in terms of figures that actually mean something to most people. I see ATW as ultimately what matters. But, since no one else states their performance ATW, for me to do so, is handicapping my own results by at least 20 degrees- more like 30.
Anyway, that's the current state of things, regarding the pinnacle of my HX designs.
Very soon after the move (we're moving Thursday), I'm planning to design the "Elite", now that the Nemesis is for all intents and purposes, "done". The Elite will be water- cooled, have 2 blowers and deliver enough heat for both to run at 240 or better, each, and simultaneously.
Ron Werner
Member
Maybe if "she" is in San Francisco :shock:
Why 2 of everything? Have 2 machines, ONE 250-300gal freshwater tank, ONE appropriate recovery tank, possibly 2 heaters but ONE fuel tank. ONE hose reel with 600' or 2 smaller ones with 300'. Getting a little overboard for the comparison.
My CanAm is getting very good "mileage" for both the unit and the heater working off one propane tank, not even 2 gal of propane per hour, = $3-$6/hr operating, getting almost dry carpet when I finish.
If you really want, use a kero heater and a diesel slide-in and run it all in a diesel truck. ONE fuel tank for all.
Bet they would still use less fuel than a big 8 or 6 wailing away.
captaincarpet
Member
My truck uses aprox. 1.7 GPH of fuel to power the truck, machine, and heat sources TOTAL.
You could use a larger tank/tanks... let some engineeer figure it out... but it will still take up MORE space than a V/AT for 2 slide in's, the tank/tanks than
the current v/at configuration, plus 2 extra engines to maintain etc., not to mention more weight and a lot of additional problems that make it IMHO less than the best choice. There are so many facets to this debate its almost impossible to do it on this forum.
Price the BOX truck, the 2 slide in's, the 1 larger fresh tank, the larger waste tank, heaters & fuel tank, reels, wands, and whatever else and let me know when you've past the price for an AT.
I'm jus saying you cannot duplicate the power with 2 slide in's in a box and not spend the same kind of cash. ( you could do it cheaper without the water softner and all the stainless steel and such, but then it would not be a fair comparrison).
You could use a larger tank/tanks... let some engineeer figure it out... but it will still take up MORE space than a V/AT for 2 slide in's, the tank/tanks than
the current v/at configuration, plus 2 extra engines to maintain etc., not to mention more weight and a lot of additional problems that make it IMHO less than the best choice. There are so many facets to this debate its almost impossible to do it on this forum.
Price the BOX truck, the 2 slide in's, the 1 larger fresh tank, the larger waste tank, heaters & fuel tank, reels, wands, and whatever else and let me know when you've past the price for an AT.
I'm jus saying you cannot duplicate the power with 2 slide in's in a box and not spend the same kind of cash. ( you could do it cheaper without the water softner and all the stainless steel and such, but then it would not be a fair comparrison).
