Vortex vs The Lunchpail

[Dolly Llama]

I just picked up a bottle of 06 Concannon Petite Sirah, will be good tonight.

help a "white trash" CCer out

Concannon Petite Sirah

is that some kind of hip lingo for a white, small/cute chic named Sara?


..L.T.A.

 

[CanYouHemiNow]

The lunch pail may have Ethel Mertz's face but she has Angolina Jolie's' body.

Sort of homely but built to kick ass and look great after three marriages and 3 kids.
Her ass won't lose it's support after a year and anal drip just ain't gonna happen.

Sure her jewelry is cheap but rocker pendants at Auto Zone are $4.99 and not $180 at BleuxLINE

Her fiery personality gets hot and horny right away after breakfast and not after a late lunch...

and best yet, I can have a 3 decade long threesome in the back of my Ford LCF for half the cost of a 60 month monogamous marriage with Thomasina Fielding.

Snark-O-Meter

 

[Mikey P]

Actually it's norcal hip for skinny ass pink grape juice with a kick.


Give me a full bodied Cab with huge lips.

 

[Carpet Cleaning Fool]

I'm still waiting for George to tell me why two slides ins are a stupid idea.

Mikey, I didn't say it was stupid. I said, "if you wanted to punish yourself".

Ok, everyone agrees that Vortex RULES!!!! The only reason everyone here doesn't own one (or a fleet of em) is because of price. What Mikey is suggesting is building a “poor mans” Vortex (twin slide-ins in a box truck).

Actually, it is worth considering so let’s do the math.

Poor Mans Vortex:

2009 Nissan UD Cab and chassis: $50k
Custom Van Body (aka box): $9k
2 Judson C-4’s: $34k
250 Gal Fresh Water Tank: $500.
Electric & Hose Reels: $1000.
Gasoline Fuel Cell: $500.
Headaches galore: $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$

Total so far: $95000.00 + sweat equity

Ok, so you can save yourself some money and buy a used box truck. But, that wouldn’t be comparing apples-to-apples would it? You might as well get a used Vortex and be done with it! Besides, you can purchase a used 2006 Vortex for about the same price as two Judsons alone. Do you get it?

Even if you could find two used Judsons and a used box truck (with a van body you could live with) you would still spend 35k absolute minimum plus sweat equity. If you had 35k you could easily buy a well maintained late model Vortex. Does that make sense?

You can’t compare the cost of apples-to-oranges (used equipment to new). If you are going to buy all new; Vortex is the best value. If you are going to buy all used; Vortex is the best value.

That concludes todays lesson.
Class dismissed. 8)

 

[Greenie]

The lunch pail may have Ethel Mertz's face but she has Angolina Jolie's' body.

Sort of homely but built to kick ass and look great after three marriages and 3 kids.
Her ass won't lose it's support after a year and anal drip just ain't gonna happen.

Sure her jewelry is cheap but rocker pendants at Auto Zone are $4.99 and not $180 at BleuxLINE

Her fiery personality gets hot and horny right away after breakfast and not after a late lunch...

and best yet, I can have a 3 decade long threesome in the back of my Ford LCF for half the cost of a 60 month monogamous marriage with Thomasina Fielding.

Snark-O-Meter

Yea, I thought that was much better than average.....worthy of post of the day at least, it had to be Cab. influenced, was way to fluid and smooth.

 

[Greenie]

Actually it's norcal hip for skinny ass pink grape juice with a kick.


Give me a full bodied Cab with huge lips.

Yea I bought a Concannon Cab. too cause I knew you would chime in. But....the Petit pulled ahead on the tasting, smooth stuff.
I'm just a rookie Greenhorn wino, I still like a Merlot, some day I hope to be a Cab. swilling pro like Mikey.

 

[Jim Pemberton]

At that time (my first two years in biz) I was a prime example of a White trash cleaner. I charged less than the real cleaners, took business away from them and hurt the overall image of the carpet cleaning industry because I had no proper education and brought prices down. (Not that it needed or needs any help.)

Guys who buy Vortexes usually do just the opposite.

The V owners I know charge more and are much more professional than most. They have done wonders for improving the image of this industry and increasing the prices we charge.

Thank you for the clarification, Shawn. Since you would likely agree that those who buy Vortex units (or Aerotechs, to be fair), are in the minority, do you believe that they alone represent the people who have found the means to upgrade the industry's image and price structure?

I can look at my own customer base and see a Vortex owner like Ron Beatty who is without a doubt one of the most service oriented (and therefore highest priced) cleaners in the region. Yet you can also look to John "JB" Burris who established the same position in his market with a Steamin' Demon (and upgraded to a "mere" CDS only recently).

Does the market leadership that these men exhibit come as a result of their equipment? The fact is that in these cases these men established their market position without regard to the systems that they used in the past, or present.

Since I sell Vortex machines, I have no axe to grind here Shawn. But I think you paint an altogether unfair picture of a large group of "good citizens" in the cleaning community when you infer that the "machine makes the man"......Its the "man" who can create the value in his business offering who then can afford the incredible performance of the equipment you pioneered Shawn, and then use that performance to further benefit the business that they built.

 

[Carpet Cleaning Fool]

On the other hand,

The coolness factor of having twin C-4's mounted in a box truck ROCKS!!! In Mikeys case he already owns a C-4. So the cost of purchasing another at 17k, plus the cost of a low mileage box truck at 20k, he's only out of pocket a total of 37k. Add a few thousand more for miscellaneous and you got yourself a Class A unit for about 40k. This is a fraction of the cost of a new Vortex.

Sure, he could have bought a used Vortex at that price but that's not the point here. On the other hand, from a business point of view it just makes better sense to put the resources of two C-4's in two separate Lunch Pails.

Two Class B truckmounts running around making you money might be better than one poor mans Class A. But, if you want to put twin C-4’s into a box truck I say “Go for it man!!! That would be cool!!!”
.

 

[Carpet Cleaning Fool]

Jim,

It seems Shawn's "white trash" comment bothers you a bit. I think you’re blowing it way out of proportion (or taking it the wrong way). Personally, I wear that statement as a badge of honor!

I am the epitome of white trash gone good. I own a Vortex, a used one, and it is much more than just cleaning machine to me. It’s a symbol that I have finally “arrived” and my old ways are over.

I was booted out of the house at 18 y/o and living out of a car which I totaled. I used the insurance money to purchase a used portable and a beat to hell Datsun pickup truck.

Talk to ME about white trash… I pushed that freaking portable for nine years.

No, I’m not offended by Shawn’s comment at all. Just the opposite! Thank goodness for Vortex. Otherwise, how would I know when I “arrived”.

 

[hogjowl]

Chavez is the one who should be offended.

Brown trash?

 

[joe harper]

HERE YA GO..... :!: ........I WILL DRIVE HER OVER TO LES'S SHOP...... :wink:

The BonUs is....The FaBuLoUs Carpet....You could LOSE ...you HomoPhObIc STATUS.. :idea:

I will throw in the waste Tank...&...The stainless pan...Shelving...200 gal fresy tank...
electric hose reels...& hose...JUST SLIDE THOSE "bAd bOyS IN"... 8)

 

[Chris A]

At that point why not just get one 59-powered slide in beast?

 

[Carpet Cleaning Fool]

At that point why not just get one 59-powered slide in beast?

Because the Genesis, the Titan, and the Everest don't come close to matching the performance of a Vortex.

 

[Chris A]

[quote="Chris Adkins":2wyd330y]At that point why not just get one 59-powered slide in beast?

Because the Genesis, the Titan, and the Everest don't come close to matching the performance of a Vortex.[/quote:2wyd330y]

I meant instead of 2 'Pails

 

[Jim Pemberton]

Jim,

It seems Shawn's "white trash" comment bothers you a bit. I think you’re blowing it way out of proportion (or taking it the wrong way)

No, I wasn't offended at all by Shawn's comment. I'm sure Shawn knows the respect I have for his vision for this industry; and that's a respect that existed years before I had the opportunity to sell Vortex truck mounts. We need more "original thinkers" in this business, and Shawn is one of them.

I was simply offering my perspective on what type of people are creating value in our industry, and that perhaps he was painting what appeared to be an unfair picture of the "less than Vortex" cleaning company owners.

I find this type of discussion to be a healthy debate, and look forward to Shawn's response.

 

[Mikey P]

Questions for George.

What Carpet Cleaning Machine('s) were you using before you got your used Vortex?

How long have you been in this game?

Have you tried other method than HWE?

 

[hogjowl]

George:

There is no correct answer to Mikey's questions. He will make you look like a fool any way you go with them.

 

[Greenie]

[quote="Carpet Cleaning Fool":15n0mow7][quote="Chris Adkins":15n0mow7]At that point why not just get one 59-powered slide in beast?

Because the Genesis, the Titan, and the Everest don't come close to matching the performance of a Vortex.[/quote:15n0mow7]

I meant instead of 2 'Pails[/quote:15n0mow7]


That defeats the purpose of the proposed idea...Redundancy is the goal with two units....did ya guys not read the whole thread...lol

And just for the record, there are more than one former V owner that is happy with his Titan or GenesisDXT.

There is more than one way to skin this cat...just nice to have options.

Not to take away from Mikey's pail, but you could do the same thing with two old skool Classic TNTs and be out the door much cheaper, have 300 cfm per wand, 120gal X 2 waste, high flow and 230-240 per wand...and even cheaper repair and replacement cost....and Just as reliable. Don't undersell the Classic TNT.

Don't forget that .9 gph fuel burn when single wanding...which a lot of guys do 75% of the time...Vortex or not.

Who do I sign up first?
Harp, we could load up your truck with some classics!

 

[Walt]

Brand new Isuzu NPR - HD 2008 - Brand new.

http://www.commercialtrucktrader.com/me ... d-95714986

Asking Price 36,333

Plus - two C-4 34,000

Custom reels and super install - 5k

Brand New Dual Wand machine. With redundancy for 75k.

Oh, and you can stand up in the box

 

[adamh]

Walt

That price does not include the box. If so the box needs a side door in it. Two if you want two slide ins. That is the short truck so I don't know if 2 slide ins would fit. You need shelves. You also need gas tanks put in for the slide in. Other than that you would be ready to rock. I love that black truck. the tall box would be nice but a pain running around here with all the trees.

 

[Bob Foster]

You don't need the cost or weight of a SS tank. A roto-molded tank costs way less.

 

[hogjowl]

"As YOU were"?

Just when was Bob ever awesome, or much lighter?

 

[Bob Foster]

Still don't see anything wrong with a roto-molded supply tank. They are solid and come in many styles and capacities. The can also be easily baffled.

My opinion is that you don't skimp on spending on the box and it should be custom sized.

FRP (fiberglassed reinforced plywood) boxes are usually (but not always) more solid than aluminum skinned boxes and preferred by builders for many reasons. However an aluminum box is usually easier to insulate and wire. There are a few manufacturers of quality aluminum boxes.

This company is a top line aluminum body builder and use aluminum to make a composite structure and not a skinned structure. I would make it a drop floor box (wheel wells stick up inside the box) for easy entry and so you could lower the overall height of the box while maintaining interior working height and also make the box a foot narrower than a standard box truck because you don't need the width.

http://www.itbusa.com
http://www.trivan.com/
http://www.itb.ca

Put a couple of Judson's and Little Giants and run both the white trash slide-ins and the heaters off of a frame mounted propane tank and a shared water supply tank with one of these boxes with a Isuzu or Ford LCF under it and then you would have the best of both worlds. It would cost less than a Vortex and have more functional room inside it.

 

[Bob Foster]

[quote="Bob Foster":2be9hpai] It would cost less than a Vortex and have more functional room inside it.

AND the payment will be almost $6.00 per day less than a Vortex payment.

duh.[/quote:2be9hpai]



The Judson's would have a lower operating cost superior functionality of the room in its box, more easily maintained for less money and have redundancy that the Vortex doesn't have.

Deck height on Vortex - belt buckle height
Deck height on my idea - knee height
Walk in and stand up ability of a Vortex - none
Walk in and stand up ability of my idea - yes
Overall box height difference with my idea compared to a VAT my idea is 10 inches taller

Curbside backswing on a Vortex? Big time
Curbside backswing on my idea? next to none compared to a VAT

Which truck would you want to drag a piece of equipment in and out of?

duh back

 

[Bob Foster]

The Vortex box compromises the room inside it too much. My design has an overall box height only 10 inches more than yours and when combined with the added intenal height of a drop floor it still is any where near as tall as most box trucks making it still very access friendly. It is also narrower than your truck making access and visibility better than yours in some aspects.

And tell us what BL is doing with your trucks these days?

 

[Bob Foster]

Shawn, I think you mean moot point.

Respectfully, here is my honest opinion.

I think the V and AT are due for serious redesign. The market has made it's statement based on the current demand for Vortex and AT units. You can say its the financial times we are living in or you can say its other reasons but it doesn't matter, because nobody is buying.

Legends could leverage their existing and future slide-in production and build a new box truck design(s) that would allow them to better position their current and future production with a larger purchasing audience than the somewhat esoteric and specialized market of dual wanders. Also there could be several big truck concepts to develop trucks targeted exclusively for the restoration market. The restoration truck adds synergy and selling opportunities for the Dri-Eaz channel and TM sales.

I realize its not about numbers sold, its about net per unit. Resto guys have the bucks, and I believe there is a huge untapped demand for purpose built restoration trucks. Also there is a large portion of carpet cleaners who want a larger van for utility and the image but can't afford a Vortex and don't need (or perceive the value of) a monster blower truck.

2% of the market will purchase a new VAT
10 -15% of the market would buy new style box trucks that I am proposing
20% of existing VAT customers would jump at the oportunity to go to my style of truck

Of the established restoration companies, they have few choices in flood trucks but put a Dri-eaz name on one and they would have HUGE demand for them.

But I like a Judson unit because it makes so much common sense and it has proven itself to the industry for decades.

TM manufactures would be wise to embrace a very simple principle that can be no better illustrated than by the firm convictions that Judson, Dick and Les Jones do business by. Simple is good, simple TMs will make manufacturers and carpet cleaners more money.

 

[Chris A]

I would love everybody's input on this question. I'm very curious about the industry's opinion of your VERY valid question...

Thanks

A loaded out V needs to get back under 90K, I know according to you the AT is an entirely different animal, but when you can get one with every concievable option for 85K, one has to ponder...

 

[Art Kelley]

[quote="Shawn York":1bl5j2um]

I would love everybody's input on this question. I'm very curious about the industry's opinion of your VERY valid question...

Thanks

A loaded out V needs to get back under 90K, I know according to you the AT is an entirely different animal, but when you can get one with every concievable option for 85K, one has to ponder...[/quote:1bl5j2um]

But it's only $6.00 more a day. That's such a classic salesman's line.

 

[Erik]

You don't need the cost or weight of a SS tank. A roto-molded tank costs way less.

I have got to be kidding me. A plastic tank? What are you gonna do when it somehow gets a whole in it? What's next Bob a plastic dump tank? Oh no, i got it a plastic blower.

 

[Bob Foster]

Absolutely nothing wrong with a plastic supply tank and yes they can easily be repaired. Not much chance of one being damaged though.