Vulcan Heat exchanger

[Desk Jockey]

Marcus its called the cleaning pie. You adjust the time, chemical or agitation.

You can still out clean anyone in the business without using extreme heat by increasing one of the other components in the cleaning pie.

 

[Lee Stockwell]

Kero heaters are rated at 4000-5000 psi......
With all that vacuum on the pto you guys could crank up the water flow to around 2 GPm
Or 16-18 flow...use the heater and out clean anyone in the business......

The heaters with that pressure rating use black iron coils. Each time used after sitting a day or so you have to discard the first gallon of water to avoid nasty surprises.

Also, the hoses carpet cleaners use are NOT rated for that pressure and heat combination. Steam rated hoses are at least 2 wire reinforced, not single wire (Neptune equiv.) or all plastic.

Don't run above the rating of your hoses please, I've seen some nasty accident damage, and more than a few unwitting cleaners end their business career as a result.

 

[mirf]

In the summer we could get bye but with the winter starting out so cold it be a problem especially at night.

 

[Lee Stockwell]

I will. Is it repairable?

We've tried, with mixed results. Soak it and pressure wash from the back side to unclog them. Once you have it in your hands you will wonder why they cost so much. Exactly like an automotive heater core on a car or truck. The blocked hx impedes airflow on your machine as well, it needs to be removed either way. Just bridge the heater hose past the removed hx.

 

[mirf]

Thanks will give it a try. I have it bypassed but will get some time after thanksgiving to look at it.

 

[Captain America]

The flow swich needs to be changed on these pressure washer heaters.. Lowered to 1/4-1/3 GPm flow
This can be done at any a washer place- costs me 100$..used hotsy pressure washer guys...
Kero fire will turn off when the trigger is off- unlike propane...safer
However I would like to see some real specs on these hx's....seems very vague as these manufacturers throw out temp. Numbers 200-250 but don't really say how much water flow it will hold on a continual basis.....
Kero and propane is rated in btu's and temp. Rise above water at4-5 GPm with continual flow 1 minute or 100minutes
They are rating hx 's with 1/2 GPm without continual flow and I have never seen any btu ratings...just temp numbers....no real specs or actual ratings ....it's all vague......
I was told hx get less heat than a small little giant propane- rated at 65 btu

 

[Lee Stockwell]

Thanks will give it a try. I have it bypassed but will get some time after thanksgiving to look at it.

I guess I'm too impulsive, I'd have to open it up immediately. Four screw, two hose clamps, pull it out. Join the two hoses by a short pipe or hose barb (cpvc works). The machine will instantly breath better.

 

[Captain America]

I am saying I clean 5 resturants all starting at 7 finish by nine and dry by 1030-11 when they open
I use around 100 gallons per job
And I have a rather small unit inexpensive tm under 10 $ k. compared to a pto....
33 hp with a 4.5 blower.........
I use no agitation only zipper with 13 -14 flow......
I am reading that these huge pto 's with 5.9 blowers are putting out less water flow than I am...
They are not being fully used to copacity because of low heat.......

 

[Lee Stockwell]

This site will give you a basic overview of Kero operation and variables:

http://www.delavaninc.com/pdf/total_look.pdf

 

[JS41035]

A Vulcan HX is not the same as a Prochem blower HX on a 405. The 405 blower HX are basically 2 heater cores preheating the water box with returning low pressure flow from the regulator. The Vulcan is more like a traditional engine exhaust heat exchanger. It uses the blower exhaust, but same principle. I believe they use a finned stainless coil. If it didn't leak I would guess it's something you could salvage. Keep in mind that if the Vulcan HX doesn't have a blown line. (A leak) it would only stop working if it were clogged. It might need descaled but probably I would assume trash has built up and clogged the fins. That can't be good for your vacuum performance either.

 

[Captain America]

So I am reading a lot mor guys are using propane instead of the kero heat....
Not knocking propane but why propane instead of kerosene???
Unless it is size or weight...

 

[mirf]

Disconnected right now but should have time this weekend to look into it.

 

[dgardner]

David, this is a diagram I found of the Sapphire Vulcan HX - is yours like this?

http://mikeysboard.com/sapphire-sci...-technology-in-a-time-proven-slide-in-design/

 

[Desk Jockey]

Not knocking propane but why propane instead of kerosene???

I would guess Heat Exchange is the largest portion of the market followed by propane, with Kero being the smallest segment.

Why propane instead of kero, I'd bet mostly due to so few kero machines being offered. There will always be someone wanting extreme heat and kero fits that bill, its just not the majority of the units sold.

 

[mirf]

David, this is a diagram I found of the Sapphire Vulcan HX - is yours like this?

View attachment 529

http://mikeysboard.com/sapphire-sci...-technology-in-a-time-proven-slide-in-design/

Not the exact same but pretty darn close

 

[JS41035]

So was it leaking water? Or did the heat just stop.

 

[Captain America]

The reason most carpet cleaners use hx.....we only buy what is sold to us....
Most manufacturers don't offer fuel heaters.......
The real question is why most Manu. Don't offer fuel fire heat.......
If it's safety...i understand.....but if it is trying to cut costs...wrong reasoning....
I know a whole lot of Manu. Who haven't been on a truckmount on a real carpet job in 20 years......
Some have never worked carpet cleaning....
I am still waiting for some real specs on these hx's....
I am guessing most hx are about the same or less heat as a 65 k btu propane...depending on the size engine.....
That's not enough heat for tile, gum, returants rentals, rx 20, zipper, ti 12 flow wand....only off and on triggering for homes...
Any kind of heavy cleaning needs at least 180-200k btu.......

 

[Lee Stockwell]

The reason most carpet cleaners use hx.....we only buy what is sold to us....
Most manufacturers don't offer fuel heaters.......
The real question is why most Manu. Don't offer fuel fire heat.......
If it's safety...i understand.....but if it is trying to cut costs...wrong reasoning....
I know a whole lot of Manu. Who haven't been on a truckmount on a real carpet job in 20 years......
Some have never worked carpet cleaning....
I am still waiting for some real specs on these hx's....
I am guessing most hx are about the same or less heat as a 65 k btu propane...depending on the size engine.....
That's not enough heat for tile, gum, returants rentals, rx 20, zipper, ti 12 flow wand....only off and on triggering for homes...
Any kind of heavy cleaning needs at least 180-200k btu.......

Marcus, you're a good guy, but those of us with a good memory see "newbie" tattooed across your forehead.

Several in this thread, and hundreds on the boards have extensive experience in fuel fired water heating. It's NOT a recent discovery. It's just the familiar cycle of "all things old being made NEW" that show up from time to time.

"Specs" can be easily calculated if you need them. My 405 reliably produces more heat and flow than I need, and I could easily double that if I ever needed to.

A "BTU" is a unit of heat energy, one pound (pint) of water raised one degree Fahrenheit.

 

[Captain America]

I'm not a newbie.... But what about the real. Newbies. Who hafta clean. Resturants apts. trashed rentals.....to survive thru there first year or two of cleaning...is hx. Enough heat for these guys??....
I was certified in 2001... They told me 1/3 carpet cleaners go out of bus. In the first year..another 1/3 the next year.....it's not because they are not working hard it's because the equipment is runnin ing 30 k -50 k to get started.....it takes 3-5 years to build up clientele in homes......
Everyone I know that started this business has struggled with debt...
A lot of the guys I knew 10-15 years ago dropped out because of debt.....
All I am saying we should get what we pay for and be given options on heat........

 

[Desk Jockey]

I think many of those owners focused far too much on equipment and not on marketing. No matter how great our machines are, they can't earn you a living without work necessary to do so.

Others at least in recent years are owners that come from corporate America. They don't have the patience for the long haul or don't see the return as quickly as they expected.

The third group are the idiots that would have failed at any business, they just choose carpet cleaning simply because it had such a low cost entry.

I honestly don't believe any go out of business because their unit doesn't deliver extreme heat.

 

[Lee Stockwell]

Propane is simple, relatively clean, and great for a very careful owner operator.

Kero is more complex, brutally hot, pretty dirty, and great for a very careful owner operator who is very mechanically inclined.

The "dirty" part sneaks up on you. Other will notice before you do.

The people who express the most shortcomings of HX machines....are the guys who SELL something else.

 

[dgardner]

If anyone does choose to run a kero/diesel heater adapted from the pressure - washing industry they owe it to themselves to add some safeties that are separate from the cycling controls (the usual flow switch and thermostat). At the very least add a push - to - reset high limit thermostat that interrupts burner power.....

 

[Captain America]

True about kero accept it is vented thru the top.....pto's air cooled engines...still produce carbon dioxide and are vented thru the back side or floor.......
Kero is not new but has been used for pressure washers be fore truckmounts.........
All I am saying is you need options if your paying 20 k for a truckmount....
We need True exact specs as kero or propane gives....so much temp rise with 1,2,3 GPm....is all that needs to be shown for carpet cleaners to make decisions
Not everyone wants to take time to clean with 1/2 GPm or 04 flow....
It is almost impossible to make money on apts. trashed rentals, resturants, tile.....with that amount of water flow...and the rotaries, rx 20, zipper....hafta have more flow
Manu. Should sell hx for homes and fire fuel for these apps.......
I do understand they only want to sell what they have....same with me I would rather clean it than have it replaced...since I don't make money replacing carpet......

 

[Art Kelley]

It would be wonderful if the key to success in this business was using a kero heater. Ultra high heat is actually the least important part of carpet cleaning (even if you have to do a lot of gum removal LOL). Good heat is important, excellent vacuum is far more important. The most important thing is having lots of customers and giving them excellent service.

 

[mirf]

So was it leaking water? Or did the heat just stop.

The heat dropped.

 

[JS41035]

I would do a lot more trouble shooting before replacement. Clogged coils or vac leak.

 

[mirf]

I will now made it to Thanksgiving. Panicked and thought someone might have a used one for a easy fix. Thanks for all the help.
A new winter project

 

[GeneMiller]

How did you go through Heat Exchangers? We've run HE on 8-tms since the 90's and never replaced a HE.

Preheater that froze while doing WDR work but never an HE

Buy for the market you clean in. We don't clean pits, resturants or apartments so the has been a need for extreme heat. If there were I can see more value in more heat.

Buy an avenger 210 and you won't ask how you can go through hxs.
I went through 3 in less than 2 years. Then I got smart and just bypassed it.

Gene

 

[Nate The Great]

Buy an avenger 210 and you won't ask how you can go through hxs.
I went through 3 in less than 2 years. Then I got smart and just bypassed it.

Gene

I scored one for $200... The engine HX leaked, but the blower HX was good.... Loud as shit with the blower HX, so I removed it and it's so much quieter... I figured it's a cheap back up, with a #4 blower and 18hp motor...

I use LG heaters...

 

[GeneMiller]

The blower hx never leaked. It was always the engine hx. It constantly shredded couplers at least every six months maybe more. I should of tracked the hours. Would be interesting looking back if anybody else had the same problems. I got very fast at changing them. The hypro pump would lose a nut on the plunger and come apart. I used to run an acid rinse back then and it went straight through the pump. I still consider The machine very reliable and never let me down. It was easy to bypass and fix anything that came uP. I carried plenty of spare parts and knew every bolt size without looking. It was my first hx machine and I never went back to propane except as a boost. I'm glad they finally got it right

Gene