WARNING!!! Carbon Monoxide will KILL YOU!

This thread has been stickied until Feb 24, 2021

AlienAgent

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This is why I converted my Judson to run on propane. It cuts down on the fumes quite a bit.
 

AlienAgent

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and is still dangerous to run in an enclosed space...
I agree. Still cuts down on CO emissions considerably. And the oil looks like new, fresh oil at every oil change too. No fumes or smells. In 10 years the closest to an enclosed space I've ran the Judson in was an open (on both ends) sally port at our county jail. An inmate jumped up and pulled a water pipe down from the ceiling and they needed the water out of there that night.
I just think that if I follow all standard safety rules for operating a truckmount AND run clean burning propane, I'm being as safe as I can possibly be.
 
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AlienAgent

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We have also ran propane equipment indoors successfully for 10 years servicing VCT floors. That was where I got the idea to run the truckmount (in accordance with best safety practices) on propane, for overlapping layers of safety.
 

FredC

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Porty in an empty place with no power,.....and a generator.

yep
 

encapman

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Many years ago one of our workers nearly died from carbon monoxide poisoning. Was in a coma for a few days. Received hyperbaric chamber treatments. Eventually made a full recovery.

He had been running a propane buffer on a few small accounts over the course of an evening. We had instructions for our guys to leave the door open to the shops they buff and place a fan in the doorway to push fresh air inside. This employee didn't follow those instructions. He was discovered in the morning unconscious on the floor.

Naturally, OSHA got involved. And although we had written instructions as a company that the employee didn't follow, they still fined us. OSHA is like an IRS audit - they will find a way to nail you for something.

Fortunately, our employee survived. We survived. And some valuable lessons were learned in the process. One of the most straightforward lessons is the title of this thread... "WARNING!!! Carbon Monoxide will KILL YOU!" -- Thank you for posting this important reminder for everyone Fred.
 

encapman

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How much was the fine, and what was the violation?

The principle infraction was for not having an MSDS sheet for propane.

They started the fine off at $30,000, and then gradually reduced it down, based on a number of factors. Kind of a sliding scale thing. The fine we ended up paying was $3,000. This was the early 90's. Adjusted to today's inflation it would've been much higher! They also assured us that a second infraction would not get any reductions.

Looking at the severity of what could have happened, we got off lightly. I think the OSHA people were reasonably satisfied that we were a company that tried to be safe. I'm very glad that we at least had written domentation that stated (leave the door open and put a fan in the doorway). Of course, that also became a 2 edged sword - because they said "you obviously knew the risks involved but failed to enforce safety". I assure you - OSHA does NOT mess around.

More lessons learned: We learned the need to have a dedicated company safety manual. And to have regularly documented company safety meetings (regardless of how small the company is). Also learned that not being aware of the standards is no excuse; it's the business owners' mandate to be completely dialed into every potential hazard and then appropriately safeguard the employees.

I hope none of you ever get into a tangle with OSHA. It's not fun! As a young business owner, the entire experience added a few of these gray hairs.
 

Bob Savage

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I agree. Still cuts down on CO emissions considerably. And the oil looks like new, fresh oil at every oil change too. No fumes or smells. In 10 years the closest to an enclosed space I've ran the Judson in was an open (on both ends) sally port at our county jail. An inmate jumped up and pulled a water pipe down from the ceiling and they needed the water out of there that night.
I just think that if I follow all standard safety rules for operating a truckmount AND run clean burning propane, I'm being as safe as I can possibly be.
Clean burning propane is when the appliance that is burning propane is properly adjusted.

I would always carry a CO detector inside when you are running LP there.
 

encapman

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Propane-powered equipment still puts out carbon monoxide. As mentioned above, our tech nearly died running "clean-burning propane". A propane-powered engine discharges CO, just less of it.

Here's what I learned about carbon monoxide. It has a cumulative effect. The CO gradually builds-up in the blood because it tenaciously binds to the red blood cells. And it doesn't release for several hours. Then once the person reaches an overload, the blood cells can no longer carry oxygen. Since this occurs gradually the victim isn't aware of the toxic level building up. Dangerous stuff! That's why after our episode, we went back to running electric high-speed buffers.

Like Bob recommended, a CO detector is essential. https://www.aircraftspruce.com/cata...M_BC-V5MZTzfXTkkmIsCfkwY06k_W-HYaAg3SEALw_wcB
 
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Matt Wood

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Propane-powered equipment still puts out carbon monoxide. As mentioned above, our tech nearly died running "clean-burning propane". A propane-powered engine discharges CO, just less of it.

Here's what I learned about carbon monoxide. It has a cumulative effect. The CO gradually builds-up in the blood because it tenaciously binds to the red blood cells. And it doesn't release for several hours. Then once the person reaches an overload, the blood cells can no longer carry oxygen. Since this occurs gradually the victim isn't aware of the toxic level building up. Dangerous stuff! That's why after our episode, we went back to running electric high-speed buffers.

Like Bob recommended, a CO detector is essential. https://www.aircraftspruce.com/cata...M_BC-V5MZTzfXTkkmIsCfkwY06k_W-HYaAg3SEALw_wcB
I just ordered a few of these. Thanks. Where is the best place to set these to be most accurate while I'm working in the building?
 

Kenny Hayes

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I run buffers in my schools, and have for years. I’ll also run them in some of my churches. I know it can be dangerous. It’s almost why I hate to discuss the subject😬
I will say that all of the areas we do are large and open, a lot like buffing a WalMart.
 

encapman

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That's a LOT SAFER than the types of accounts we were servicing. We were doing lots of smaller accounts; small convenience stores, and shops like Fantastic Sams. Low ceilings, and confined space. That's why we made a point of pushing more fresh air into the building. But if those instructions weren't followed, you've got a problem. As mentioned above, the effect of CO is cumulative. My worker had just finished buffing the last job of the evening, so the CO from all of that night's buffing was essentially still in his blood.
 
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GeneMiller

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when I was a noob I parked in the garage and ran the machine. It was a gated community and I wasn’t going to be done before 5. Luckily the house had co2 detectors. I set up fans to blow it out.. The one in the garage went off but not in the house.
 

Joseph225

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i have to be aware of how i park my 570 because we have set off 3 in the last 2 years..parking 6-7 feet away from a garage but angled toward the garage will
set off a alarm in about 30 mins..pain in the ass

i angle the machine away from the garage..would love to figure a was to divert the exhaust on the 570
Same. I want to route it through the floor, so that I can shut the doors while working during cold weather. Having some way to change the direction the exhaust is routed would be nothing short of awesome.
 

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