We have an opportunity to bid 36k concrete

[BLewis]

Posted in The Hard Surface Room but no responses so reposting here for advice.

Opportunity to bid Cleaning & Sealing of 36k Concrete Warehouse
Call came in today. I have limited experience on this type of work. I just spent an hour or so reading search topics on here and came across a "few" things that may help.


Going to look at job on Friday night, I got the inside scoop on first bid to tune of 38K, so they are bidding out to additional companies.


This is just one of those opportunities that come along that I don't want to walk if there's a chance we can pull this off. However, do not want to bite off more than we can do.


From what I gathered, I am going to asses the condition of the floor, has been empty for 3 years, asses the loader tracks etc. Keeping in mine possibly renting auto scrubbers. Several chemicals recommended, have extensive use of Zep with HC. Only equipment I have now that might assist is 175 rotary, black pads, that I'm not to worried about getting rid of tire marks. We also have couple of turbos and a surface cleaner we use when power washing concrete pads.


Biggest concern is "sealing" which I have zero experience in.


For you concrete guys give me some/more ideas of what I should be looking for Friday night when I go to look at it. Thanks

 

[Doug Cox]

Why would you get involved in a huge job with which you have no experience? Sounds like a huge liability

 

[floorguy]

UHHH WHAT TYPE OF sealing were you think??

whats it going to be used for...

you either have to

A. degrease and then acid etch

B shotblast

the B would be if you were going to be putting a thick coat of epoxy (as it will fill the voids...)

also what was it used for before??

 

[Shane Deubell]

Usually we will double scrub it with degreaser/stripper and black pads, then 2 layers of concrete sealer.

Double scrub meaning either 2 guys in front with floor buffers scrubbing and then someone following with autoscrubber
Or 2 autoscrubbers first one with squeegee up and just scrubbing and second scrubbing/picking up.

Then rinse with mop, apply sealer with a rubbermaid flat mop.
Probably in .30-.35 cent sqr ft range for this process.

 

[BLewis]

Shane, sent you a PM

 

[Bill Morgan]

Probably in .30-.35 cent sqr ft range for this process.

Hi Shane,

Is that price for all steps or for each separate step? ie .30-35 cents for the 2 step scrub and another .30-.35 cents
for the rinse and 2 coats of sealer for a total bid of .60-70 cents for whole job?

If it's .30-35 cent for all... that's $10,500 - $12,250 or twice that if it's the two separate steps.

Thats still considerably less than the other bid which is over $1.00 psf.

Is the other bid wildly over-priced and they are just hoping to cash in on a big pay day?

What could they be adding to their services to justify such a p/s/f price?

What kind of production rates can you expect using your suggestion of 2 auto scrubbers? How much is the average for renting an autoscrubber?

Rinse mopping 35k s/f after autoscrubbing sounds like a bitch to me unless that can be done by machine ( I don't know.. I can only fall back on my limited VCT experience )

Thanks for clarifying for me.
Bill

 

[clean image]

first you need to find out what goals are the person writing the check
to some, sealing = concrete polishing

During inspection, look at profile

There are companys that bring there own tractor trailer generators and polishing equipment.
That you are not going to match
Think costco, lowes, home depot

 

[Shane Deubell]

Hi Shane,

Is that price for all steps or for each separate step? ie .30-35 cents for the 2 step scrub and another .30-.35 cents
for the rinse and 2 coats of sealer for a total bid of .60-70 cents for whole job?

If it's .30-35 cent for all... that's $10,500 - $12,250 or twice that if it's the two separate steps.

Thats still considerably less than the other bid which is over $1.00 psf.

Is the other bid wildly over-priced and they are just hoping to cash in on a big pay day?

What could they be adding to their services to justify such a p/s/f price?

What kind of production rates can you expect using your suggestion of 2 auto scrubbers? How much is the average for renting an autoscrubber?

Rinse mopping 35k s/f after autoscrubbing sounds like a bitch to me unless that can be done by machine ( I don't know.. I can only fall back on my limited VCT experience )

Thanks for clarifying for me.
Bill

.30 cents a sqr ft all inclusive, everything.

Rinse mopping, you are just picking up the streaks from the autoscubber really.

I would have to look up a past job, think the last stadium we did was NET for the whole job in the 300-400 sqr ft hour range but do not quote me on that.
We would be good at 50% profit on a job like this.

 

[Out of Character - 0]

If were talking a routine cleaning sealing I'd bid somewhere near .30-.35 total. I wouldn't need to rent though. Rentals can add up especially if a job turns into a nightmare and takes days to complete. Heavy cleaning I may bid up to a buck a foot.

I always either bid contingent on a free test if were selected or I ask to test prior to bidding if it's anything more than a simple cleaning or if I'm sealing/coating afterward.

I've underestimated jobs like this before. I had one beat me that was cleaning only @ about 24,000sf. I bid $3k for a GC who bid $4k to sub it to us. It cost over $7,500 to complete.. We didn't test and I thought it was an easy one. Tire tracks were really heavy in about 8,000sf which was under a layer of dust. There were 2 ways to get it off: Propane stripper almost sitting still. Or a 4000psi hot washer with a narrow (15) jet 2 inches from the ground moving slowly.

 

[Doug Cox]

So, what's the story, Billy. Are you that short of work that you would do something that you have never done on that large of a magnitude that could possibly put you out of business. Maybe I don't understand desperation. Sounds like a totally stupid decision. Good luck.

 

[floorguy]

i still want to know what the scope of the project is....

what type of sealing are they expecting?? and wtf does the floor look like....

 

[BLewis]

Hey Doug,
It is in the cold of the winter here, so like everyone work is slower than normal. I haven't made a decision yet and floorguy I don't have the answers to these questions just yet. I am only going to look at the job Friday evening to see if I want to submit a bid. Doug I appreciate your brassness toward me (seems you always had a ho for me, lol) it keeps me level headed and down to earth when possible opportunities like this come up.

I know this is totally different but I almost turned down that 81k sf carpet job a couple years ago because I hadn't (as of then) been over 3 stories high and just had not done a job of the magnitude. We finished up with over 2 days to spare. I know this is totally different but I see no harm in going to scope out the job to see if we can fulfill their needs. We power wash conrete all the time but I know this isn't the same, but with our surface cleaner we get semi tracks out all the time. But, I have gotten several useful posts and have had companies call me offering help in getting this done if I so choose. I have been in touch with several concrete pro's since first posting and now at least know what to look for. I have not even talked to the tennents as of yet so I'm not sure of the scope of the job just yet. I wouldn't call it despiration at all just not wanting to turn down a possible good job because "some" people think we can't do it. But, like I said I appreciate all the responses it helps me to decide. What if they are only expecting a clean and a basic seal then why shouldn't I at least keep an open mind to that?

Also, I have just completed my big marketing piece that I set my goal to finish during this slow season and to be honest I'm getting a little bored.

So, what's the story, Billy. Are you that short of work that you would do something that you have never done on that large of a magnitude that could possibly put you out of business. Maybe I don't understand desperation. Sounds like a totally stupid decision. Good luck.

 

[Out of Character - 0]

I see nothing wrong with bidding this or adding this to your list of services. One point Billy, tracks from pneumatic tires are different from skid marks from solid tires on most indoor fork trucks. Layers of old skid marks in loading zones can make your surface washer almost useless.

 

[floorguy]

oh hell ya go look at it for sure...

i just want to know ALL the info 1st hahahah..

take some pics and ask those questions...

 

[Doug Cox]

I apologize if you think I have an issue with you, I don't really know a whole lot about you. I would've given the same response to anyone jumping into a huge job in which they have no experience. It's my opinion, take it as you wish. Again, apologies if I acted like a dick.

 

[dealtimeman]

Cox,

whAt crosses your mind that a concrete job even if it goes south could put someone out of biz ?

i don't think billy will be done even if he doesn't get paid on the job. Learning sometimes cost you money but almost always pays off I. The long run.

i am getting tired of real topics and threads getting shot down before any useful info is added and some of those that come here for more than drama can learn something!

 

[Lee Stockwell]

We've done a few in the high 20k sf from area plants closing and being renovated for spec use.

Make absolutely sure to walk ALL of it. Listen and get in writing what they expect. "Sealing" can be a boondoggle if not spelled out.

A concrete spinner (like turbo hybrid without vacuum ports) can be hooked to your TM, more impressive than regular pressure washer. We used a leaf blower to dry the floor and move water toward the vacuum.

 

[Doug Cox]

Cox,

whAt crosses your mind that a concrete job even if it goes south could put someone out of biz ?

i don't think billy will be done even if he doesn't get paid on the job. Learning sometimes cost you money but almost always pays off I. The long run.

i am getting tired of real topics and threads getting shot down before any useful info is added and some of those that come here for more than drama can learn something!

I asked a few questions and offered my personal opinion. If you don't like it, KMA.

 

[BLewis]

Thanks Lee, we have the spinner your referring to "we call it a surface cleaner " it is a 24 inch and I feel we could do the "not so bad" areas with it followed by a scrubber. I'm envisioning doing the harder areas with 175's and black pads with grease cutter & stripper (as Shaune discussed), again following by a scrubber or couple of turbo's. I will have lots of time to look it over. I won't actually get to talk to head guy until Monday or Tuesday.

my biggest concern right now is that most standard sealers seem to require temps between 50-100 degrees and that may present the biggest problem.

 

[FB7777]

36,000 sq ft is a helluva big on the job training area is what I think Doug is getting at , and I kind of agree with him


A riding floor scrubber and a couple walk behind auto scrubbers along with 175s for tough sections is the minimum equipment to tackle a project like that in a reasonable amount of time

Largest warehouse area I've cleaned was around 6,000 square , with an autoscrubber and 175 it took all day

 

[kyfireman2004]

Lets us know whats on the concrete tomorrow......Depending on whats on the concrete will determine if the floor will come clean. The best method of cleaning concrete is with 5-8 gpm pressure washer with 3500 psi or more(190 plus temps). If you hear someone telling you a pressure water can hit 200 chances are they are full of crap unless highly modified. You will also need real cleaning chemicals. Hosty might be a option if the floor is not in bad shape.......if it is hosty chemicals are going to be a waste of money. (Watered down) You will need to use straight chems........ and be really carefully not hurting yourself.

 

[BLewis]

I apologize if you think I have an issue with you, I don't really know a whole lot about you. I would've given the same response to anyone jumping into a huge job in which they have no experience. It's my opinion, take it as you wish. Again, apologies if I acted like a dick.

Doug, none needed. I ask for advice and all suggestions are welcome. I want to be one that always looks at the possibilities and not just assume that we can't do it, and when in those situations I ask for as much advise as I can get, be it good, bad, and somtimes ugly. I for one belong to this board to have peers to ask advise of and "occassionly" give advise. I find "most" here are willing to share most of their knowledge to help in these type situations, and it is always appreciated. And I am sure that I will screw up some things that we attempt however I am always open to learn.

 

[Shane Deubell]

Doug, none needed. I ask for advice and all suggestions are welcome. I want to be one that always looks at the possibilities and not just assume that we can't do it, and when in those situations I ask for as much advise as I can get, be it good, bad, and somtimes ugly. I for one belong to this board to have peers to ask advise of and "occassionly" give advise. I find "most" here are willing to share most of their knowledge to help in these type situations, and it is always appreciated. And I am sure that I will screw up some things that we attempt however I am always open to learn.

Billy

Don't get bent out of shape but do ask questions, 99% of time people want a scrub/seal in a warehouse situation. We have done some super picky pharma warehouses and the hockey arena here, its not rocket surgery.
Do ask questions though on expectation, i have had some say they don't really care.... and others that intend on inspection with a microscope, literally.

 

[BLewis]

Ok, spent around an hour tonight looking this project over. Took some pics to share. My contact which referred me says they are just looking to have it cleaned up and concrete sealed. I won't get the chance to talk to the co-owner until Monday or Tuesday. Going back Sunday afternoon to do a test area where the worst tire marks are. They are moving their equip/furn in 1st of April and have some pressure washing and painting to be done on the walls first.
The following area is about the medium build up and probably covers about 10-15% of the total

This is the worst and I have to find out if they want the yellow stripes removed as well. This covers maybe 10-15% of total

This is about what 60-75% of what the total area looks like just has a real good coating of dust and grime

This is a general overview of about 40% of the total area and the worst part

I'm feeling pretty good about this right now, I will know for sure after I get the chance to test an area on Sunday. Then once I get my questions answered on Mon/Tue I'll know if we can move forward. My contact said that they were not at all happy with the original bid which tells me they just want it cleaned up real good so they can get moved in. I do know what is going in there but can't share that info at this time. We do have a couple local lurkers in Lexington that are waiting to pounce if they get the chance.

If viewing pics helps with further suggestions that would be much appreciated. The warehouse is not heated it was setting at 54 degrees air temp tonight but I didn't have a surface themometer available tonight so I will get those readings on Sunday as well.

 

[Ron Lippold]

I would rent a dual head riding auto scrubber with a couple of serious brushes, have a guy pulling a 25 gallon sprayer pre spraying in front of you then rinse , go back over with a step or two of twister pads, then use a good impregnator or concrete densifer.

 

[floorguy]

ahhh pics showed a ton.....

i would recommend DO NOT SEAL IT......

if there are lurkers call me....and i can explain this

801 898-6210

 

[Matt B]

Hi bill , I'm Matt I live in north alabama we do jobs identical to what u are looking at give me a call ill give u some tips. Ill even come help u. I have propane strip machines and autoscrubbers and only 4 or 5 hours away. 256.767.2880

 

[dealtimeman]

Billy I would take him up on that offer.

 

[BLewis]

Hello floorguy & Matt I will call both of you late Saturday or Sunday. I am leaving here in about an hour to head to Indy for a one day seminar/shop talk with Yeadon up near Tom Kings place. I got an invite after referring that 63K job per year to Mr. King. Seems like a great guy and I can wait to meet him and see his operations. I will call on the way back. And as always thank you Michael !

 

[BLewis]

Ok, had the chance to do the test scrubbing/stripping today. Tried 3 things, first a panel 8X20 just with a brush and degreaser (No results, except got rid of dirt), 2nd panel 8X20 with degreaser and black pad under 175 (better results), 3rd test 1/2 greasecutter 1/2 stripper and black pad, pretty good results with very little dwell time and steady scrubbing.
Floorguy, I now do not think it has a Ashford coating because it became dull vs shinier so I'm sure it will need sealed, you can give me your comments after seeing pic. They tried to get the guy down there today however he didn't answer but he will be by tommorrow to see if he is satisfied with the cleaning part. The concrete tested in different areas 48-52 degrees so I think that is ok.

Before

After same angle

Before, cross angle

After, cross angle

I did about 700 feet today in all of my testing in about 1 hour today (including pulling hoses, mixing chemicals and experimenting) so with a helper we will be able to knock down between 1000-1500 per hour

Also, even though I didn't get to talk to guy directly the gal said he didn't care about the yellow stripes he just wants it cleaned (scrubbed) and sealed

I also did not have any sealer with me at the time so I couldn't test that. Matt is this about what your experience looks like after scrubbing/stripping? Will your sealer take care of this?