What would you do with this machine

[Sonrise1]

Nearly 2 years ago I bought a big brand truckmount slide-in carpet cleaning machine. When the machine worked right, it worked great. However, we were broke down every month, mostly due to problems related to the heating system. I was told by 3 different dealers within 3 hours of me that I didn't need a water softener. The owner of the dealer had not known about my problems, which I didn't know. Finally in frustration, I called him to let him know what was going on. I had been in the shop over 12 times with the machine, and he got the ball rolling with the manufacturer, who eventually replaced the machine. (I had about 700 hours on it). I now have a new machine, which we again started off with a heating problem. With some adjustments, we got it running again. We now have 230 hours on the machine, but today, it went down again. The engine died as we were working. It will not start. I've checked my waste tank switch, new oil change in it, took it apart down to the carb. I'm getting fuel, it is flooding.

I'm just so frustrated with this machine and brand of machine. I'm down once a month. This is becoming an expensive hobby. I don't know what I should do. I'm driving the truck (again) to my dealer (great owner and people), at a cost of $100 of fuel, hundreds in lost work, etc. Should I be rethinking what I'm doing and change brands? Should I get something that I can work on myself? (This machine is a pain in the rear to work on, everything is so tight) Should I go to a direct drive?

When my machine works right, at 500' I have as much vac as the typical direct drive at 150'. But I'm tired of always being down. Any advice?

Jerry :?:

 

[joeynbgky]

I feel your pain.. I had a prochem legend that was always problamatic. I since have a tcs machine actually two of them. Hardly no problems at all. Almost 3 years and 2500 hours. Its propane heat......so always hot. Make the manufacturer take the machine back.......buy a tcs. Www.tcsatl.com
What brand machine do you have?

Sent from my T-Mobile G2 using Tapatalk

 

[greentech]

I feel your pain.. I had a prochem legend that was always problamatic. I since have a tcs machine actually two of them. Hardly no problems at all. Almost 3 years and 2500 hours. Its propane heat......so always hot. Make the manufacturer take the machine back.......buy a tcs. http://Www.tcsatl.com
What brand machine do you have?

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His profile says Sapphire Scientific 454SS

 

[kingjoelking]

I was gonna guess he had a 427.

 

[Dolly Llama]

I don't know what I should do.

tough position to be in.
You have a problem child TM.'
whether it's design flaw that needs re-engineered/modified or just TWO lemons TMs in a row.
Either one doesn't bode well for you

I

Should I be rethinking what I'm doing and change brands?

after two of 'em, I'd be inclined to disclose the problems to prospective buyers and dump it.
(if you're able to absorb the lose)

then buy another brand and don't look back


..l.T.A.

 

[Mikey P]

If you're 101% positive it aint you or your techs messing it up than yes, time to move on like Larry says.
Only YOUR conscience can tell you how to get rid of it if the dealer or manufacturer wont provide a refund.



I'd like to hear Jim Bethel's opinion as he has sold a boat load of those units.

 

[joeynbgky]

I have heard over 8 similar stories with these machines.

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[Goomer]

Heating system????

Might be a candidate for a reworking by Les.

 

[Mikey P]

I have heard over 8 similar stories with these machines.

8? :shock: no kidding, you must be a real super star in the truckmount repair business there Joey.


I've heard of heating issues with SS units 2 times

 

[joeynbgky]

Re: Re: What would you do with this machine

I have heard over 8 similar stories with these machines.

8? :shock: no kidding, you must be a real super star in the truckmount repair business there Joey.


I've heard of heating issues with SS units 2 times

Yup.. I simply read about them on several carpet cleaning forums.. lmao.. I didn't say I had first hand experience.

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[Lee Stockwell]

Nearly 2 years ago I bought a big brand truckmount slide-in carpet cleaning machine. When the machine worked right, it worked great. However, we were broke down every month, mostly due to problems related to the heating system. I was told by 3 different dealers within 3 hours of me that I didn't need a water softener. The owner of the dealer had not known about my problems, which I didn't know. Finally in frustration, I called him to let him know what was going on. I had been in the shop over 12 times with the machine, and he got the ball rolling with the manufacturer, who eventually replaced the machine. (I had about 700 hours on it). I now have a new machine, which we again started off with a heating problem. With some adjustments, we got it running again. We now have 230 hours on the machine, but today, it went down again. The engine died as we were working. It will not start. I've checked my waste tank switch, new oil change in it, took it apart down to the carb. I'm getting fuel, it is flooding.

I'm just so frustrated with this machine and brand of machine. I'm down once a month. This is becoming an expensive hobby. I don't know what I should do. I'm driving the truck (again) to my dealer (great owner and people), at a cost of $100 of fuel, hundreds in lost work, etc. Should I be rethinking what I'm doing and change brands? Should I get something that I can work on myself? (This machine is a pain in the rear to work on, everything is so tight) Should I go to a direct drive?

When my machine works right, at 500' I have as much vac as the typical direct drive at 150'. But I'm tired of always being down. Any advice?

Jerry :?:

Hi Jerry, Were these your first truckmounts? Your profile indicates 3 years in biz. There could be a "newbie" situation involved that you haven't considered??

Two of my sons live near you in Beavercreek OH. I'll look you up next time I visit.

Thanks,
Lee

 

[cucu]

Hi Jerry, Were these your first truckmounts? Your profile indicates 3 years in biz. There could be a "newbie" situation involved that you haven't considered??

i got 15 or 16 years with tm,s Lee...did,nt stop my ss having problems over and over and ....you get the picture
when i get my tnt back i thinking about sending my ss over to Les for a make over. it,s has about 750 hrs on it now, it will be a nice surprize if it makes it to a 1000hrs

 

[Jim Bethel]

I'd like to hear Jim Bethel's opinion as he has sold a boat load of those units.

Hi Jerry, sorry to hear your having issues. Three questions if I may ask....

1) You mentioned a water softener in your original thread. Are you in a hard water area?

2) When you say 'heating problem', what does that mean exactly? Not making much heat, or making too much?

3) Is this your first truckmount?

As Mikey says, we have sold a lot of the Sapphire units, so I am also interested in finding out more info. While I am not discounting your story or issues, we haven't had one single issue to do with the heating system. Mike has heard of two more issues than I even have . We run in some pretty hot climates, and some of our cleaners are running in VERY high hard water areas (for those guys we highly suggest they use a water softener). I have seen 'lemon' machines in most brands I have worked with and for over the years and all the manufacturers are keen to keep the clients happy, as Sapphire Scientific has done for you so far which is great to see. But having 2 problematic machines........I have never seen that. Our clients over here love their 454 for the positive reasons you list. They are great units with awesome performance.

Sounds like you have two different things going on here though. Initially you mentioned heating issues, but that is working fine now.

What you are dealing with now is an engine issue. The engine is the 35 hp Briggs and Stratton engine (same motor as Les uses in one of his Judson machines) and a very good motor.

I know the dealer you purchased it from is probably very capable, but 99% of the time, it is something very simple (like a vapour lock, crushed hose or a number of other stupid little things it could be as with any engine) that a local small engine mechanic can troubleshoot for you.

In Dayton, OH, I just did a quick google search and found

http://www.wagonerpower.com/

http://www.heilbrothers.com/

both of these are Briggs and Stratton service agents with repair divisions and carry parts as well. If I were in your shoes (because I take it your dealer is a distance away – like most of our clients are from us) I would show a Briggs guy locally first, as this isn’t a Sapphire Scientific issue, it sounds as though it’s a Briggs issue. But that is my two cents anyway.

Another thing, and please correct me if I am wrong, I am guessing that this is your first truckmount perhaps? The only reason I am thinking this, is because you stated the Sapphire is ‘difficult to work on’. Having worked and sold most major brands, us and our clients find the Sapphire truckmounts the easiest of all the major brand heat exchange truckmounts to work on. Very open and easy compared to most.

I’m glad your happy with your dealer, as finding a good one is invaluable. For the most part, they should be able to troubleshoot quite a bit of information over the phone and only have you come in if it’s something major.

 

[scotty747]

still runnin my onan hydracat. Keep waitin for it to die so i can upgrade but its so simple to fix.

 

[Mikey P]

I have heard over 8 similar stories with these machines.

Well 7 of them must have been on *** (imagine that..) cause I've only heard of Cu having issues here on MB.
and we all know how retarded he is so I never thought much of his complaints.

Could you provide links to those 7 individual's threads Joey? I'm sure Bill Bruders would love to see them.

 

[Larry B]

Sell it and buy a Bawb V. "NEW" machine.

 

[rhino1]

Don't give up yet. I know this is frustratrating for you but since the tm manufacturer provided you with a replacement unit it shows they are dealing with you honestly. I would suspect the issues you are dealing with may be something simple more related to the install than the machine.

I will give you one example of a similar situation with a friend of mine and a new machine he had. When it was installed the fuel pump was running too much fuel pressure which was causing the engine to run rich, which caused a lot of buildup in the heat exchangers. This also eventually led to issues with the engine not starting. After several times in the shop they did figure it out but not once was he offered a replacement or even an apology.

 

[Shane T]

Jerry, I've been through the same experience as you with a PowerClean unit. Constant breakdowns, replaced complete unit and still more of the same. SS may be able to get your unit working well but I doubt you'll ever be really happy after all the headaches you've been through. In hind sight I should have done what many told me to do, cut my loses and run. I lost a lot of time, money, and sleep and although I finally have what I believe is a reliable unit I'm always waiting for the next shoe to drop. Life to short, go get something you can enjoy using.

PS:I know I'm beating a dead horse since PowerClean is no longer in business, but they get no credit at all for helping resolve my issues. All they did was replace one bad machine with another. Take anything a dealer says with a hefty dose of sceptisism.

 

[Lee Stockwell]

Hi Jerry, Were these your first truckmounts? Your profile indicates 3 years in biz. There could be a "newbie" situation involved that you haven't considered??

i got 15 or 16 years with tm,s Lee...did,nt stop my ss having problems over and over and ....you get the picture
when i get my tnt back i thinking about sending my ss over to Les for a make over. it,s has about 750 hrs on it now, it will be a nice surprize if it makes it to a 1000hrs

Jerry you've had problems with EVERY tm you've had till now?

Some people need to run Bane's. Plus you'd have the cute Irish Leprochauns and 4 leaf clovers on your truck.

:-)

 

[cucu]

i have 2 shamrocks on me truck Lee (whats this 4 leaf clover crap)
i came here to find me pot of gold, but all i get is abuse and offerd pot ,but no gold

and its not EVERY tm iv had problems with....its everything iv owned i have had problems with
.......................time for another pack of lucky charms

 

[Desk Jockey]

Maybe the pot is your gold? :shock:

 

[steve g]

Nearly 2 years ago I bought a big brand truckmount slide-in carpet cleaning machine. When the machine worked right, it worked great. However, we were broke down every month, mostly due to problems related to the heating system. I was told by 3 different dealers within 3 hours of me that I didn't need a water softener. The owner of the dealer had not known about my problems, which I didn't know. Finally in frustration, I called him to let him know what was going on. I had been in the shop over 12 times with the machine, and he got the ball rolling with the manufacturer, who eventually replaced the machine. (I had about 700 hours on it). I now have a new machine, which we again started off with a heating problem. With some adjustments, we got it running again. We now have 230 hours on the machine, but today, it went down again. The engine died as we were working. It will not start. I've checked my waste tank switch, new oil change in it, took it apart down to the carb. I'm getting fuel, it is flooding.

I'm just so frustrated with this machine and brand of machine. I'm down once a month. This is becoming an expensive hobby. I don't know what I should do. I'm driving the truck (again) to my dealer (great owner and people), at a cost of $100 of fuel, hundreds in lost work, etc. Should I be rethinking what I'm doing and change brands? Should I get something that I can work on myself? (This machine is a pain in the rear to work on, everything is so tight) Should I go to a direct drive?

When my machine works right, at 500' I have as much vac as the typical direct drive at 150'. But I'm tired of always being down. Any advice?

Jerry :?:

my advice try to be a little more mechanically inclined. I think to keep a truck mount running a guy needs to be. I also highly recommend a water softener on everything. the machine will not have hard water related problems.

if all else fails get a judson TNT there isn't much to go wrong on those and they are very simple.

 

[Sonrise1]

Thanks for all the input guys! Having only 3 years in the business, and this unit being the replacement for the first problem child (under warranty, thank you SS), that is why I posted. In my original post, I didn't mention the brand, not wanting to sound ungrateful for the replacement machine. I forgot it was in my profile. Anyhow, I didn't know if I'm doing something wrong, if this is just par for slide-ins, or what.

Went to my dealer today (2.5 hr drive one way). Turns out, my overheat sensor for the exchanger shut the engine down. We had just arrived at the job, had the water on for maybe five minutes when it went down. It must have been stuck because when the tech reconnected it after starting the machine with it disconnected, it started up. Replacement part is on the way from the west coast, 5-7 days ground. I have to pay extra to have it overnighted, even under warranty. Turns out my warranty runs out the end of April this year since I purchased the original machine April 2010. I now have 230 hours on the new replacement machine.

Don't know why they won't overnight it at their cost. I'm operating a machine with a defective overheat sensor, which I guess is important. If I keep having machine problems, not due to operator error, then I will have a different brand in my truck. I'm trying to keep myself civil.

Jerry

 

[thearmedjanitor]

Heating system????

Might be a candidate for a reworking by Les.

I second that vote, he really needs to call Les first.

 

[thearmedjanitor]

Thanks for all the input guys! Having only 3 years in the business, and this unit being the replacement for the first problem child (under warranty, thank you SS), that is why I posted. In my original post, I didn't mention the brand, not wanting to sound ungrateful for the replacement machine. I forgot it was in my profile. Anyhow, I didn't know if I'm doing something wrong, if this is just par for slide-ins, or what.

Went to my dealer today (2.5 hr drive one way). Turns out, my overheat sensor for the exchanger shut the engine down. We had just arrived at the job, had the water on for maybe five minutes when it went down. It must have been stuck because when the tech reconnected it after starting the machine with it disconnected, it started up. Replacement part is on the way from the west coast, 5-7 days ground. I have to pay extra to have it overnighted, even under warranty. Turns out my warranty runs out the end of April this year since I purchased the original machine April 2010. I now have 230 hours on the new replacement machine.

Don't know why they won't overnight it at their cost. I'm operating a machine with a defective overheat sensor, which I guess is important. If I keep having machine problems, not due to operator error, then I will have a different brand in my truck. I'm trying to keep myself civil.

Jerry

Do yourself a favor brother, call Les and buy a Judson, you wont have those problems, simple to fix, no proprietary parts and the Judson family has a heart of gold and they do the right thing.

 

[Lee Stockwell]

I eliminated two such sensors on each of our Prochem 405s. I hate ANYTHING that shuts the engine down without leaving a clear indication of WHY it did so. Two mechanical popoffs are redundant enough.

Your truck will be just fine without it. Check your fluids...clean carpets.

If someone wants to rig a gizmo to put on a light show and play "Yankee Doodle" that's just dandy. Just DON'T shut my machine off while I'm working!

 

[Doug Cox]

Gotta love the distys who can't stock a simple sensor. Come to think of it, it reminds me of Powerclean who stocked no parts for their machines.

 

[rwcarpet]

Gotta love the distys who can't stock a simple sensor. Come to think of it, it reminds me of Powerclean who stocked no parts for their machines.

Gotta say, Doug......I was fortunate to have a dealer (Express Distributing) that stocked about everything I needed, Proprietary-wise, for my Genesis59. Everything else I was able to find at local parts dealers.

 

[Doug Cox]

Robert- I was speaking about Powerclean specifically, not their distributors.

 

[bob vawter]

Sell it and buy a Bawb V. "NEW" machine.

Thanks Larry for the GENIE shill input.....HOWEVER......

they're all gone......I have no more....say goodnite Gracie

c'est la vie!

WHAAAAA HOOOOOOO! shiteatinggrin