Whats more important?

[Ron Werner]

The premium cleaner will do things that do make a difference in the "clean" but may not be as apparent in the visual.

So Ron you feel that a rotary extractor is a must for a premium cleaner? Anything less is substandard cleaning? :shock:

I have a RX20, been sitting for at least 10yrs, no one wants to buy it either. I would never use it without vacuuming first, as much as I can. Cleaned some CGD that it didn't matter how much I vacuumed, there was a lot of soil remaining. Rotary made all the wicking even, no streak marks that were left with the old wands. Don't get that streaking as much, if at all, with the Greenhorn.

From what I've seen with rotaries, most cleaners (excluding some on the board here !gotcha! ) use those to skip steps, ie the vacuuming and the prescrubbing specifically, since the swirl hides a lot of spots. It's all about speed.

Rotaries will not replace a good vacuuming, it may "appear" to remove a lot of junk from the carpet as seen in the filter, but let that carpet dry and you'll pull up a lot of dust and hair that was missed.



A premium cleaner doesn't "need" a rotary, its a nice tool to have available.

Yes, but for how long.
And my question was "do you think he did as good of a job"?

depends if he knows how to use his tool. Sometimes, and quite often, service people start relying too heavily on the "power tool" and they do a mediocre job. Look at all the hacks with TM's. They need more power tools to go with their power tools.

 

[Desk Jockey]

A premium cleaner doesn't "need" a rotary, its a nice tool to have available.

I'm confused by your earlier statement then.So it pertained to vacuuming?

The quote you copied was speaking about Rotary Extractors.

 

[Connor]

Yes, but for how long.
And my question was "do you think he did as good of a job"?

depends if he knows how to use his tool. Sometimes, and quite often, service people start relying too heavily on the "power tool" and they do a mediocre job. Look at all the hacks with TM's. They need more power tools to go with their power tools.

Yes, but you're getting into a work ethic problem, which was not my intention, let assume we're talking about trained people with a good work ethic, not hacks. Which one do you think does a better job. Ignore your own skills and abilities or other hangups.

 

[K P]

If the preminum client doesn't know what it is, how are they going to place a value on it? If it makes such a dramatic difference in the end product why do so few cleaners use them?

I think the biggest value with a rotary is there is less fatigue and so you can process more jobs. It's an equalizer for the aging process, one that can extend your cleaning life.




Oh and you can shove the fish taco... side ways![/quote]

The point is Richard,they own and know how to vacuum,so it being perceived as more professional is moot,now the rotary on the other hand will not be in to many closets(probably none)because only a professoinal needs one..I ran out of crayons so I hope you comprehend

PS-sorry about the fish taco thing

 

[Ron Werner]

A premium cleaner doesn't "need" a rotary, its a nice tool to have available.

I'm confused by your earlier statement then.So it pertained to vacuuming?

The quote you copied was speaking about Rotary Extractors.

Yes, my previous comment was about vacuuming. Thats how I impressed the client.

Yes, but you're getting into a work ethic problem, which was not my intention, let assume we're talking about trained people with a good work ethic, not hacks. Which one do you think does a better job. Ignore your own skills and abilities or other hangups.

Work ethic makes a huge difference, but you're right, off topic.
Assuming a trained professional that does excellent work no matter what they are given to work with, and they have to choose between a vacuum and a rotary, he'll impress more with a vacuum. They may have their own vacuum but when you show them what they missed, they realize you just put in much more effort than they ever did.

If they need speed, go rotary.

The point is Richard,they own and know how to vacuum,so it being perceived as more professional is moot,now the rotary on the other hand will not be in to many closets(probably none)because only a professoinal needs one

Rotary "looks" impressive but ... Just thinking of the cleaner I bought my Big Red from that had all his clients SOLD on the RX20. Didn't matter how much soil I showed them that I removed, if I didn't clean with the RX they didn't think it was clean enough.

It can be sold either way. My clients would see the rotary and wonder why he didn't prevac?

 

[Desk Jockey]

Point taken but if they wanted to clean the carpet themselves they wouldn't have called me. They call because they want to know if they need to have the maid vacuum or are we going to vacuum. It's obvious to them that it needs to be vacuumed before wet cleaning.

Powerhead? They usually don't stick around to watch us clean. A good share of the time they are not home or wait only to show what we are cleaning and they are out the door.

Any dog and pony show is wasted on the help. :|

I too am sorry about the fish comment, in fact forget about the fish................ jamb a handfull of grade school crayons instead.

 

[juniorc82]

this question is retarded

 

[Chris A]

then why not weigh your opinion?

 

[Connor]

I think that was his opinion.

 

[juniorc82]

then why not weigh your opinion?

Ok in a hypathetical situation rotary extraction if you want to impress a customer, because it might look more high tech and cutting edge. In reality pre vacuuming because the first principle in floor cleaning is dry soil removal.

 

[Brian R]

I think this thread just goes to show how much some guys love their equipment and don't give 2 shits what the customer wants or what the customer thinks or what the customer will notice.


Par for the course I suppose.

 

[Connor]

Sez the guy who OPs. :roll:

 

[Brian R]

Sez the guy who OPs. :roll:

Eggzactly

 

[Mikey P]

A premium cleaner doesn't "need" a rotary, its a nice tool to have available.

horseshit.

 

[Brian R]

Hey, I used to be a premium cleaner and didn't use a rotary eggstractor.

 

[PTMatt]

I think all carpets need pre-vac, weather we do it or the customer.

 

[Ron Werner]

I think this thread just goes to show how much some guys love their equipment and don't give 2 shits what the customer wants or what the customer thinks or what the customer will notice.


Par for the course I suppose.

and just what does a customer want?
When they call a cleaner, yes, they want the spots to be gone and the carpet to be "looking" nice, but the underlying expectation is that the cleaner is going to "clean" the carpet. You can remove the spots with a mediocre job and it'll look clean or you can remove as much soil as you can, cleaning it the best you can, and it will look clean. In the former you get paid for lying to the customer because you say "look at how clean it looks", in the latter you get paid for doing what you said you were going to do.

Its the cheap cleaners that don't give a crap about the customer. The guys that are willing to invest their time and or money with better cleaning tools and then use them properly are the ones that care about the customer. Cheap cleaners aren't going to bother spending even 10 min with a vacuum, nor would they invest 2-3K on a rotary. The tools don't make the cleaner, the cleaner makes the tools work, and a premium cleaner, with or without a vacuum, with or without a rotary, will do an awesome job. You don't ask for 50cents/sf without backing it up with performance.

 

[FredC]

ron.....just out of curiosity...do you ever see your delusions supporting more than one truck....or even one without you on it?

Is your income so great that when you pass on your superior values and income expectations to the guy that runs your truck when you no longer can.....enough for you BOTH to eat.....???


Old Age Security in Canuckistan must be the shit.........

 

[idreadnought]

Well first off it all depends. Not all carpet situations are the same. Would you answer this the same in these two scenerios

Customer A: Nicer home, has a housekeeper. Uses a good vacuum once or twice a week. Carpets are dirty but not horrible spotted.

Customer B: Nicer home, no housekeeper. Older lady that just doesn't vacuum as much as she used too. Carpets are dirty because her kitchen floor doesn't get cleaned as often either.

Customer A doesn't matter. Pre-spray and extract will get her carpets clean.

Customer B is a tough one. Really needs vacuuming, but it also really needs aggitation to break down the oils.

For us we always vac and pre-scrub. If I had to give one of those steps up in customer B it would be the vacuuming. The Crb would lift a lot of the stuff to the surface and her carpets will stay clean longer if the film that is making them dirty in the first place is removed better.

Keep in mind: when carpets are dirty dirt is not the problem, it is the symptom. Carpets are a plastic and naturally don't attact dirt. The carpets over time get a film on them that holds the dirt to it better. If you don't remove the film that is holding the dirt they will get dirty faster. That is the way it was explainded to me and the way I explain it to my customers.

 

[Brian R]

[quote="Brian R":fervjxdy]I think this thread just goes to show how much some guys love their equipment and don't give 2 shits what the customer wants or what the customer thinks or what the customer will notice.


Par for the course I suppose.

and just what does a customer want?
[/quote:fervjxdy]


The customer wants a "clean carpet" as far as they know. Unfortunately there is no such thing.

Cleaner? Yes.....Perfectly clean. Not a chance.


I can tell you what they don't want.

Some goofy looking guy in their home for 5 hours "acting" like he's cleaning when really all he is doing is that dog and pony show because he THINKS THAT'S what the customer wants.

In reality, they are just getting freaked out and are worried the guy is going to put holes in her floor from all the crap he is doing to the carpet.

 

[Ken Snow]

LOL Brian- good one.

 

[Ron Werner]

The customer wants a "clean carpet" as far as they know. Unfortunately there is no such thing.

Cleaner? Yes.....Perfectly clean. Not a chance.


I can tell you what they don't want.

Some goofy looking guy in their home for 5 hours "acting" like he's cleaning when really all he is doing is that dog and pony show because he THINKS THAT'S what the customer wants.

In reality, they are just getting freaked out and are worried the guy is going to put holes in her floor from all the crap he is doing to the carpet.

Come on Brian, I answered that IF you read it. You've mentioned that "criteria" before that IF you can't get it 100% clean then just make it "look clean enough".

But how about raising your bar a little to "as clean as possible".

I can tell you what people don't want too. They don't want to be lied to. If you said you "cleaned" the carpet they would rather have someone in there for 5 hrs, seeing all the work that goes into it, than someone that's in and out, looks clean but they're wondering. Its not a "dog and pony show", everything I do has a purpose.

Can this work as a multitruck Fred? I don't know but I don't see why not. Certainly we wouldn't need 10jobs a day/truck. If that were my ambition its entirely doable.
And whoever takes this busn over, sure, they can duplicate what I do. The real question is "will they"? I'm not doing anything special, just what other guys don't want to do.

 

[Brian R]

As clean as possible IS clean enough...but some will try to do better...Bless their hearts....But this is a business and not a self serving wank fest.

But each to his own as far as that goes.

I'm just looking at it from the customer's point of view.

If you think some lady wants you or anyone else in their home for 5 hours cleaning a carpet you're sadly mistaken. They want convenience, clean and customer service at a respectible rate of time and money.


Overboard or underboard is what we see on this board and some refuse to see the real picture.

 

[Ron Werner]

that's why there are so many different cleaners out there...there are many different "ladies" and what they expect. There are more that are satisfied with "clean enough" and won't pay for anything better, but there are many that are not satisfied with "clean enough" and will pay for that extra effort, they are just looking for someone that will provide that service.

Clean enough is nOT clean as possible. "Clean enough" takes minimum effort with maybe a touch of elbow grease. You will never get something as clean as possible with a "clean enough" attitude.

 

[Ron Werner]

Some goofy looking guy in their home for 5 hours "acting" like he's cleaning when really all he is doing is that dog and pony show because he THINKS THAT'S what the customer wants.

In reality, they are just getting freaked out and are worried the guy is going to put holes in her floor from all the crap he is doing to the carpet.

You call what I do a dog and pony show? You tell me what step I should leave out since you think some of the steps are useless. At least I have a dog and pony to show and I don't leave any crap behind.

 

[FredC]

Ron,


you are fn your custies........


there is absolutely no way you are getting them as clean as possible...............


when you are cutting seams, pulling the carpet, dusting, pit washing, etc................get back to me.............


until then you are only getting them what you perceive to be "cleaner" than the other aholes that don't have the vacuum fetish you have.


I've seen some of your pics and vids......and like I've said before....maybe you should be more concerned with the carpet "looking" clean and less with the amount of dirt you can film entering a cleartrack.........


and I've used the comparison before.....I knowingly take my car through the cheapo wash 'n vac...........and I'm f'n happy with the results.........

I could take it to an anal retentive detailer that would take all day and do a "superior" job........but the value just isn't there for me....I don't drive an exotic...............nor do most people

r]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xez2n371MTor]

 

[Brian R]

[quote="Brian R":33iz4ipy]
Some goofy looking guy in their home for 5 hours "acting" like he's cleaning when really all he is doing is that dog and pony show because he THINKS THAT'S what the customer wants.

In reality, they are just getting freaked out and are worried the guy is going to put holes in her floor from all the crap he is doing to the carpet.

You call what I do a dog and pony show? You tell me what step I should leave out since you think some of the steps are useless. At least I have a dog and pony to show and I don't leave any crap behind.[/quote:33iz4ipy]


90% of your vacuuming, scrubbing and I would guessing "explaining" to the terrified customer whom I would guess you have verbaly kidnapped because you think they give that much of a crap about carpet cleaning.

You are not your customer......My guess is they are just being polite and putting up with it.

 

[Brian R]

Oh, and yes you are leaving crap behind.

For one....not all the dirt will come out...like Fred sed. It's just not going to happen...Get over it.

For two you ar leaving behind a funny feeling for your customer who just got screwed out of their money

For three you are leaving behind what is my guess about 80% of what could be repeat business.

For four (did I just type that?) your leaving behind a Negative Moment of Truth.


Just sayin.

 

[Lee Stockwell]

Arguments like this thread convince people to just get rid of carpets.

Good job

 

[renegade_cowboy]

I think the dry soil removal process.. I tell them it removes 60-80% of the dry soil prior to me even cleaning it. Customer never care about what kind of equipment you use.

What sounds better.. 60-80% dry soil removal or a rotating machine?