Whittaker Trio - 1st impressions

[tmdry]

So I guess the true question comes down to productivity.

Why should a company purchase 1 unit for $4k, when they can get 3-4 used Cimex for that price? (if they don't already own at least 1 Cimex).

If say both the Trio and Cimex, can cover approx the same sqft per hour, let's just say 2500 sqft.

1 job @ 10,000 sqft.

1 Trio/tech - 2500/hour = 4 hours (2nd tech vacs). - @ $15/hour = $60+$60=$120 labor plus costs. Done in 4 hours
3 Cimex/tech - 7500/hour = 1.5 hours (4th tech vacs/refills tank) - @ $15/hour x 4 = $90 labor plus costs. Done in 1.5 hours

Assuming the above is a company in a commercial route, and you are looking @ #'s.

From those #'s, I can only see a disadvantage to purchase a $4000 unit that only 1 tech can run vs 3 units @ a time, and still be able to complete 2-3 other jobs the same day. If a company had 2-3 10k sqft jobs scheduled for that day, w/ the Cimex (more units) they could complete more work in the same but in less time.

This is why certain companies have 6-20 Cimexes and can complete 50-100k sqft jobs in a day's work.

 

[Derek]

eh i reckon you could be right. i'm small-time tho, no employees. i want what will give me the best results the quickest. the big bene for me with the Trio is mill warranty's.

 

[Ron Werner]

looks really aggressive!
My 15" can run tight to the wall on one side. Guess with the larger side they need to support the brushes on both sides

 

[Derek]

Mardie's comment about the width being a problem on uneven concrete/CGD has me concerned. anyone else with CRB experience know what he is talking about?

 

[hogjowl]

I never know what he's talking about ...

 

[Mardie]

Mardie's comment about the width being a problem on uneven concrete/CGD has me concerned. anyone else with CRB experience know what he is talking about?

Derek when the concrete is perfectly flat the brushes will be evenly spread across the surface of the carpet and give you a consistent clean. In areas were their are low spots in the concrete the brush will not dig into that carpet. In areas were their are high spots in the concrete it will lift the entire width of the brush of off the carpet and give an inconsistent clean. In areas that you have high and low spots in the concrete you will get a very inconsistent clean. The wider the brush the more pronounced the effect of uneven concrete will be. Sometimes you can go at these uneven areas on different angles which can help but it is a pita.

 

[Derek]

ahh i see thanx Mardie. so a 15" slightly lessens that problem.

the project on Saturday has some of those areas, since the carpet is glued down to plywood on a 2nd floor

not my fav jobs to work on, it doesn't seem to clean as well as glued-to-concrete, more shadows and whatnot.

 

[Zee]

I just can't get over that small solution tank...how is that gona keep up with a production rate of a cimex?

Maybe the unit is capable doing so much but you will constantly stop for a refill.

Unless it has the tank removable and you can carry multiple tanks and just swap them out in five seconds. Just like the Orbot. I sometimes take 3 tanks with the Orbot and fill them up at the same time and just swap them out when they run empty.

 

[Desk Jockey]

Zee I would agree it is a bit small, wish it was bigger but it also wouldn't need to be Cimex size since you won't be using the same amount of liquid per sq/ft.

 

[Derek]

exactly what Richard said...at least that is what some ppl say, you use less solution with a CRB.

you are right Zee, the sol tank has 2 straps that keep it in place. as fast as you can pull the flap back and lift up the sol tank, then place another in it's place and strap them both down you are ready to go.

a little faster than when i replace my Orbot sol jug.

 

[Derek]

look at pictures 1 & 3 and you can see the 2 light-blue straps on the ends...very fast and simple.

 

[Derek]

still waiting for the sol tank part to be delivered. one thing that Randy or others who have tested or bought the Trio might want to know: Whittaker advertises the Black brush set to be the most aggressive (that is what they sent with mine) but they've told me there is a more aggressive Blue set that isn't even advertised.

 

[tmdry]

I just can't get over the $4200 price tag for a CRB w/ an extra brush and a rubbermaid looking tank...

 

[Derek]

if not for the warranty garbage i wouldn't be considering it. but perhaps it is the next best thing for high-production CGD cleaning, who knows.

maybe they outsourced the sol tank to Cross American.

 

[Desk Jockey]

I've always been interested in the CRB's but they always looked like toys. Plus the guys that own them mostly use them as a prep machine and not as a stand alone system. The physical size, the 3rd brush and the warranty thing all have me interested, even though it may not rate has high when it comes to ATP removal. But who knows, I doubt it's been tested yet.

 

[Derek]

i just re-read some of Randy's posts about it. he related this is the most powerful CRB ever sold in the US...more powerful gears and motor. it' definitely the heaviest. i agree the sol tank looks a little weak, but everything else looks great.



slightly off-topic: i checked out the Rotowash site 2 weeks ago, they sell a monster 60 cm (23.62") brush model. but i hear they don't sell to the States.


i think the parent company is the same for both companys.

 

[Derek]

Whittaker says the part i need replaced is going to be at least another week to a week and a half before it arrives. sorry Richard

 

[Derek]

the part came in this past Tuesday...finally! works like a charm now.

overall i'm optimistic about the 20" Trio.

the pic's below are from a REALLY small job, i think it is our smallest commercial office (one of our insurance agent's satellite offices in a very small town.) probably about a 16'x17' room basically, with 3 mats. last time we cleaned it was 2 years ago. every time we clean it, it gradually looks a little better than the previous year...typical of my experience with encap on CGD. the 20" Trio cleaned it slightly faster than the Cimex it seemed, last night's larger job was a better judge.

hard to say on this small job if it gave a better appearance of clean than in past cleanings. overall i was happy with the outcome. it used i'm guessing half the encap juice that the Cimex would. and it dried in about 20 minutes, i was quite surprised. i was happy with the area of carpet that transitions to the chair mat...you know that area where the chair wheels roll off of it all the time and the carpet gets really worn (permanent damage) because the chair mat is too small? i'd say it cleaned that area up about as good as the Cimex. but i'll need a full day of using and cleaning 100+ cubes/offices and i'll get a better idea on that front.

my 2 biggest worries when running this CRB was:
1) it grabbing a loose seam and pulling it out (there was a seam all the way down the center of the carpet, i cut 1 piece off with my duckbill shears.)

2) it grabbing a phone/computer/monitor cord and tearing it out of the wall...i stayed far away from those things! with the Cimex i can get right up to them and let the Cimex push them out of the way a lot of times (although my Cimex did tear 1 phone cord out of the wall about 7 years ago :Oops ... but that is a rare thing for the Cimex.)

here are some pic's.

before pic of a mat with a spot:

after pic of clean mats and spot mostly gone:

i wasn't happy with seeing some of the spot still. i thought it was something my Cimex could clean up with ease, so i fired up the Cimex. well i'll be, the Cimex didn't do any better of a job at removing that spot:

chair mat transition area before:

chair mat transition area after, it looked great:

"waiting area" before:

"waiting area" after:

the "toilet paper" test (i placed it on the last area of carpet i cleaned and stepped on it, see my fat foot print? nearly dry already!):

renovator tray after i finished (i thought it woulda had more in it, i guess my Dyson does a decent job of pre-vac'ing after all):

the 3 brush rolls after i finished. still as clean as new:

when i was done i was pretty excited. i called my contact there on Thursday and she was very pleased and thought it looked as good or better than in the past.



last night i completed a larger project, an oily machine-shop-type office, mostly halls. sorry no pic's, i didn't stop for anything. i wanted to see how long it took compared to the Cimex we've used in the past here. it took the same amount of time as our Cimex did in past visits.

BTW, this project was so oily/dirty that i used as much encap sol as i normally do there with the Cimex...carpet dried faster though. almost gobbled up 1 ethernet cable and the Trio's own cable with it. that is basically going to happen at some point. hopefully i don't ever pull a monitor off a desktop and smash it.

and 1 small mat it gobbled up the end of it, had to have the missus stand on it to clean it effectively.

i'll know better on Monday when i call my machine shop contact to see what she thought of how it all turned out, but i was VERY happy. i didn't need to use the Cimex at all. the toughest areas for the Trio to clean was under some desks at this office (we CC'ed 3 offices and 1 cube also.) the Cimex can reach under them better. overall i think it cleans just as good.

if the Client is happy on Monday then i'd def recommend this machine. so far i gotta agree with Randy, seems we have a VLM machine that will encap clean a CGD extremely well and is mill approved.

overall, it seems to clean much better than i anticipated. i couldn't be happier. i think the only question now is, do i keep this 25" wide machine or get the 20" wide machine (which is their 15" model.)

 

[Desk Jockey]

Thanks for the update Derek!

I would like to know which you decide on the big guy or the small one. I'm leaning towards the big guy but I'm interested to see what you choose and why.

 

[Derek]

i THINK i will stick with the big one and then for some accounts, just bring in the Cimex for cubicle openings that won't allow entry for a 25" machine. it'd be a pain to have to ship this back... they really get ya in that aspect of it. now i gotta invest in 1 or 2 different sets of brushes...they have 1 stiffer set that they don't advertise, and then idk which softer set i should get...whichever can be used in a resi setting i guess.

for now i am loving a new toy and will use this on most CGD accounts. when the "fun" wears off maybe i'd return to the Cimex. still too soon for me to honestly say if 1 is better than the other. but the fact that it is a tough choice at all really has me stoked! i never thought it would be a decision. to me the Trio was just for newer carpet to help with any warranty issues.

i gotta post a Certified Pile Lifter and my other Cimex for sale now i reckon gonna have a lotta room in the back of the van now, awesome.

 

[pablomoreno]

The handle is straight. Mikey .. you;re confusing it with an OP.

Great report Derek. I think John's new trinity will get certified by the Mills soon. They were impressed at Shaw by it. A Trinity/Trio combo out to make us triple the money!

 

[Derek]

LOL

yea that would be awesome if his new OP gets "certified." plz post a similar review when you get a Trin.

 

[Desk Jockey]

I'd like the bigger size to cover more ground, plus it looks impressive but..........how much for your Cimex?

 

[Larry Cobb]

i just re-read some of Randy's posts about it. he related this is the most powerful CRB ever sold in the US...more powerful gears and motor. it' definitely the heaviest. i agree the sol tank looks a little weak, but everything else looks great.

Derek;

Definitely NOT most powerful Cylindrical Brush machine.

That would be Clark's machine with larger 1/2 HP motor & 4 Gal. Tank.

One problem we have seen with Whitaker's machine is the "handle switch" brush activation.

The aluminum latch wears to the point where the handle falls,

and the machine takes off with no operator.

We have developed a solution to that irritation.

The dual brush 20" model does allow cleaning right up to the wall on one side for $1000 less.

View attachment 1991

Larry

 

[Desk Jockey]

I thought Foster said Clark's machine didn't work well???

I always thought it looked heavy duty.

 

[Derek]

tx for the clarification Larry. do you mean that your solution to the irritation is a fix for the Whittaker machines?

i wonder if Whittaker fixed this "problem" on their new Trio model.

 

[Jimmy L]

Whittaker doesn't make anything they import them from Austria.
And if you do a search you'll find the orginal comes from there too.

And they slap their logo on and have dist rights in this country.

And that's probably why they cost so much.

 

[Derek]

such a know-it-all.

do you still have a GLS James?

how do you like Whittaker's custy service? easy to get parts? who's your fav to deal with when you call them up?

 

[tmdry]

Where does the dirt GO?

 

[Derek]

i forgot my wife took a brief vid on her low-def phone last night. my 1st youtube vid, doesn't show alot. looks like the spray isn't making it all the way to the edges of the brush.?. i shoulda let her run the machine and looked for myself...in too much of a hurry.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sb5qGQnVBcE&feature=youtu.be