Why Manufacturers stay away from the boards

[John Olson]

The measure of a company isn't if it messes up but how it responds when it does. Not everyone stands behind their equipment for one reason or another which is why you should choose wisely when decided not only what to buy but whom to buy it from. You see if the manufactuer fails to stand behind something it is my job to handle it (as long as I sold it) not everyone out there feels the same. I have a really ugly story that is going to end up in court so I can't share it yet but I'm very very disappointed with how things have gone. Only bright side is I didnt sell the machine nor do I carry the line. If it had been a Prochm and if I had sold it they would have had a new machine.

 

[Mikey P]

:shock:

 

[ronbeatty]

Mike, I have tried to be totally honest with everything I have posted here. I am not involved with Shawn York in any endeavor, NO ONE IS WHISPERING IN MY EAR!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!. I posted this out of pure frustration with the realization that these trucks can not be repaired to operate the way the were sold to me. One or the other of my trucks have been down since the middle of October. How would you like to try to operate your business this way.

 

[John Olson]

To be clear I was not referring to a Sapphire Scientific machine i.e. It is not a 370,454,570 etc.

 

[Lee Stockwell]

I've not heard any similar complaints from owners of other Blueline built machines. Are they still in limbo?

This has been another rough year for TM builders.

 

[daniel@procarpet]

I feel for you Ron. For that kind of money those trucks should almost never break down. I could not believe my eyes two years ago when I saw your blowers mounted at an angle when I had never seen anything like that before. They looked poor man rigged. My intuition was right. You made a good attempt to make them right, but you are no engineer and your attempts are at best just educated guesses. If I were you, I would sue for lost revenue and whatever it takes to make your trucks right. There is a difference between a major design flaw and normal wear and tear.

The sad part though Ron is once you realized your machines were junk and the Vortex high had worn off, you decided to dump them on some poor soul and let them deal with the problem. That's kind of shaddy don't you think?

 

[ronbeatty]

Daniel, I put the one truck up for sale before I realized the the blower was going bad again. If you noticed it was only on Pacific Vacuum for a short time. Once I realized the same problem was starting again, I pulled it off. I had agreed to provide a new Isuzu truck to test market a new diesel machine for Sapphire Scientific. After some discussion with Bill Bruders it did not seem like it was a good deal for me.

 

[cucu]

Ron if i may ask
What have sapphire done for you to try make things right , and what do you want them to do that would make things right for you

 

[joe harper]

Dan

The phrase ..DUMP...implies that Ron ..has NO right to sell his equipment.."AS IS".. :roll:

You if ...anyone ...should understand his issue...Your USED ..Everest had considerable
issue's..that PROCHEM covered under a manufacturer's warranty.... :shock:

Ron ...purchased NEW...equipment built by BLUELINE..."I believe"... :?:

Even if Ron's unit is "Out of Warranty".... :idea:
And the issue that was NOT resolved..."While under warranty"...the PROBLEM still is the
responsibility of the ORIGIANAL manufacturer... !gotcha!


IF YOU DO NOT "THINK" SO.. :?:

Ask TOYOTA.... :shock: The design of their "Gas Pedal" that sTicKS.... :!: :!: :!:

I have a .."MANUFACTURER'S RECALL"..from FORD..for a {1992 Ford van} that I own..!

 

[Mikey P]

So Ron, how many other owners of your model are having the same issues?

How machine was the warranty for your machines?

What was done under warranty and what was done after?

So you're not communicating with York at all? I see him logged on here many
times a day so I have to wonder, I also wonder how he got a photo of the SS/diesel proto type unit you were going to" beta" test..

 

[Jim Martin]

I feel for you Ron. For that kind of money those trucks should almost never break down. I could not believe my eyes two years ago when I saw your blowers mounted at an angle when I had never seen anything like that before. They looked poor man rigged. My intuition was right. You made a good attempt to make them right, but you are no engineer and your attempts are at best just educated guesses. If I were you, I would sue for lost revenue and whatever it takes to make your trucks right. There is a difference between a major design flaw and normal wear and tear.

The sad part though Ron is once you realized your machines were junk and the Vortex high had worn off, you decided to dump them on some poor soul and let them deal with the problem. That's kind of shaddy don't you think?

this is not a major design flaw....there are many blowers out there that for years have been running at this angle trouble free........as long as the angle is not to abrupt then it is fine.....the plates that were used do not effect the blower in any way....because of the blower already sitting at an angle....owners are warned no to park on a steep grade.....combine a steep grade and the already built in angle....then you can cause some damage....

 

[Mikey P]

Les has the Fix, why not just get it over with?

 

[Lee Stockwell]

We ran a 3MF shaft UP for a long time with no damage.

 

[joe harper]

Les has the Fix, why not just get it over with?

If Les converts to PROPANE....? "I assume that is what you mean"..???

How is that going to RESOLVE....The PTO driven BLOWER issue..?


I am sure if Ron had wanted a "fuel fired"...unit ...he would have purchased
one in the initially..!

ps.."If I purchased a "more expensive"..Deisel engine...and the dealer could
NOT fix a "gremlin" in the engine...! I sure as Hell ...would NOT allow them to INSTALL
a gasoline engine to RESOLVE the issue.... :roll:


Pss..This IS NOT the 1st time Les...has had to offer a SOLUTION to a "BLUELINE"
issue... !gotcha! Doesn't ANYONE...remember "Project Blue Book"... thathurts
Maybe they should just RETAIN ....The Judson Company"....to DESIGN their TM's. :idea:

 

[ronbeatty]

Mike, I DID NOT give Shawn York ANY Pictures or any info of any kind.

 

[Burtz]

ron anyone tell you your a freaking pain in the ass

 

[Erik]

It's pretty sad that a company the size of SS won't resolve this problem. When I had problems with my 05 FMI Vortex, Shawn took care of everything a year and a half after it was delivered. The repairs where $4,000. I was not to happy with the Mfg. , but the customer support that Shawn York gave me was top notch.

All these problems we hear about are after the sale of Vortex, so how is this Shawn's fault :?:

 

[Dolly Llama]

I don't have a dog in this fight and sincerely hope Ron gets machines running RELIABLY regardless HOW it happens




BUT....what a difference a year makes.....





PostPosted: Mon May 25, 2009 8:16 am

Dave, I ran Butlers for 25 years, they are as reliable as they are because Butler has not changed anything during that period of time. If you have noticed, there have been post lately asking why no problems with Vortex's, maybe it won't take 25 years to get the bugs worked out. And to answer the expenses thread, my Vortex's make me money every month they don't cost me a dime.

you have tons of posts just like that one, Ron
Hell, 70% of your posts are telling us how many years you been in biz, what you used before and how much money your making as a result of you TWO WONDERFUL '07 V's


But it sounds like NOW you been having troubles all along, Ron

WTF, dude????


this is what frustrates me and why reading "between the lines" is so important.


for YEARS we've heard VERY VERY little of the problems and costs associated with the platform
It wasn't til HONEST and CANDID Jim Martin came along did we start to hear of the chinks in the V armor.


i have a theory why.
I suspect it has much to do with human nature .
when we spend such large dollars, be it on a vehicle or a boat, or a TM, it could be the biggest POS, but no one will hear that because EGO and PRIDE prevents us from being candid and critical


..L.T.A.

 

[Willy P]

i]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AYcKDyMZC3Yi]

 

[Ken Snow]

Well said larry- I have been guilty of that myself at times, so I can apprectiate that if it is the case.

Ken
Ps We have been happy Butler owners for almost 27 years and have had probably close to 100 of them.

 

[FB7777]

If 1 vortex has been down since October how have you been getting all your work done? Is one unit a backup. Have you considered outfitting a new rig, and getting a vortex prepped for sale?


I remember you posting how these 2 units are consistently making you so much money, another payment for a permanent solution is the smartest option

 

[Dolly Llama]

Ken
Ps We have been happy Butler owners for almost 27 years and have had probably close to 100 of them.

the difference there Ken, is that Butler has YEARS and YEARS and THOUSANDS and THOUSANDS of TMs out there over the years.
You CAN'T argue with THAT many happy and REPEAT custys

the problem with the V is, there's only 500 or 600 ever built in the HISTORY OF THE WORLD
and a sizable portion of them are beat to death, junked Venturi units.
There just not that many newer Vs on the road and never has been, and even fewer of those owners frequent the boards .
of those that do, VERY few have been candid about the problems and expense to keep them running .
It's not until they're SOLD or they become so FRUSTRATED, as in Ron's case, they we hear about it


it makes me wonder how many less than biz savvy owners got in over their head$ as result of the HYPE and all the glOWinG field reports


..L.T.A.

 

[joe harper]

Well said larry- I have been guilty of that myself at times, so I can apprectiate that if it is the case.

Ken
Ps We have been happy Butler owners for almost 27 years and have had probably close to 100 of them.

Come on Ken... :roll:

You run Butler's ...because they are IdIoT ProoF.... :!:

Both Ron & I also ran Butlers for MANY years.... !gotcha!

If was a Recipient...of BUTLERS...design flaws ..."when the G-VAN was discontinued."
LOTS of ISSUES.... :x The BUTLER Corp.....Didn't "STICK THEIR head in the SAND"
And ...blame General Motors Corp. for their TM design issues...!!!!

Is this really about BLUELINE....or....about the remedies that the END-USER of a product
has as RECOURSE....to demand a reasonable result to a PROBLEM... :?:

Lets be REALISTIC here ....! If you call BUTLER with an issue.? The RESPONSE will be
ExTrEmelY different than the guy that OWNS.....2 Butler Units.... !gotcha!

Do most on this board find a certain Pleasure.."When a VORTEX goes down"..? YES THEY DO!

They have had the "V"...shoved down their throats....from DAY one.... thathurts

I SUBMITT to you...!!! That , It makes NO difference to me whether it is a "PORTY DOWN"
or an "AREO TECH"..."Both companies...CANNOT go to work...!" It is ALL relative.....!


SILENCE...From SS...can only hAnD-CuFF them in the EYE'S of perspective PURCHASERS... :!:

Why ...start this THREAD...only to say you will NOT respond further... :roll:

I they feel Ron's request are "NOT"..reasionable or un-founded ..THEN SPEAK-UP..!

Why ..ALL the "BeHinD the SceNeS"....pillow talk...

 

[Art Kelley]

[Do most on this board find a certain Pleasure.."When a VORTEX goes down"..? YES THEY DO!

:

I doubt any of the posters here get any pleasure from seeing a fellow carpet cleaner struggle with equipment problems especially for months at a time with no remedy and no where to turn. We can all relate to breakdowns and setbacks and Ron's problems are particularly egregious. I wish him the best of luck and a quick resolution to his dilemma.

 

[Mikey P]

Rons machines had a one year warranty, they are now 3 years + old.


For some reason Ron is having problems that are unique.


So he will need a unique fix.



Propane.

 

[steve frasier]

07 V, I had a temperature sensor go out when the machine was new and had to replace the float in the fresh water tank, 3 years in that is the only problems I have had. Fewest problems that I have had with a TM execpt for the Thermal Wave II, owned 6 different models. I'm knocking on wood right now :shock:

I have been doing almost all the maintenance myself

I would never had a bought a FMI built machine due to comments by people that owned them

Doesn't the AT blower sit at an angle also, why no problems there

would have bought an AT except for the convincing arguments from V owners

 

[Ken Snow]

Not sure what the "come on" was for Joe- I agreed with larry and also admited that sometimes I let my ego get in the way myself. I disagree with Larry about only one thing and that is I doubt there have been more than a couple hundred or so vortex type units made. Then again I don't really know shit. somewhat amus

 

[Mike Draper]

Many butler units have blowers that sit on an angle. Mine does.

 

[Dave Rampage]

Good thing FMI stopped building them when I ordered mine. I got my $9,000.00 deposit back and ordered an AT. Everybody laughed at me and said AT would be out of business.

51/2 years later I'm still a happy AT owner. I was the lucky one.

Dave

 

[Lee Stockwell]

Angle of the blower is a moot point.