Hg's and there affect on dry times.

[TConway]

Okay guys,
I am really curious as to what you have learned over the years of cleaning, I know some of you here have some real time behind the wand.
Some of you may even go back to the shampoo and wet vac days.
Mike you may also have some input on this as well as you have worked with a few TM in your cleaning history.
So back in the early days of cleaning were the early TM units setting there HG @ 13 or was it lower?
The reason I ask is it seems pretty standard that most stay around 13" Hg? Why? is it due to being the best number? Or is it because any more would make the wand hard too hard to move?
In today's world we have glides on our wands now....so the tm's that are saying 14,15,16" Hg doing this because of the glides ability to make the wand easier to push and pull?
Any of you out there running 16"Hg....how much have you really noticed in dry time difference vs say running at 13"hg??
I fixed my Vwtm....I broke the crank shaft bolt that held my pulley on...I had to take a leak....I put the hose down and it magically moved itself over to the baseboard and caused 100% blockage.
I had closed my free flow valve down a bit when I started this job....I must have closed it too much.
After fixing it APITA to say the least, I wanted to see what vac hit...so I cranked her up and covered/capped the vac hose....I let off at @ 18-19" of Hg.... WAY TO MUCH and why risk possibly breaking it again.
The way my throttle is set up (works off of Vacuum) it will just keep pulling,,, so I made some adjustments to my linkage and also lowered vac to 13" Hg....now this is a true 13 not like on my legend, the legend will only go up to @ 10-11"max on your regular household carpet, where the vw will hold it easily at 13" or more if I set it higher. This is at 100-125' hose run as this is my average.
Have any of you ever heard of or ran a tm that was LOWER than 13" Hg setting....like 10"HG or even less?
If so what were your dry times like??
Thanks Tom

 

[Desk Jockey]

our first TM back in the 70's was Steam Genie's Hydro Genie II it was set at 14-inches of merc. We never dual wanded but ran as much as 400-foot of hose off it. 24-hp Onan drove 2-Suterbilts in series.

 

[Mike Draper]

I think mfg's set it there because they want the blower and parts lasting a long time. When you run things to max, they wear out sooner. I notice most of the time I'm cleaning it sits around 11-12hg, unless i'm running the hoss on a really thick cut pile which it usually sits close to 13-14 which is optimal for dry times IMO, because my relief is set at 14hg. This means I'm getting a true 13+hg out of my machine and not losing any in the relief valve.
I noticed cleaning with my friends Vortex and using the HOSS the relief valve was open continuesly as it was creating to much airlfow. So even though the lift was sitting at 16", the dry times werent as great as I was expecting.

 

[Dolly Llama]

you'll discover that most guys are clueless, Tom
(no knock, just reality)

very few can figure anything out on their own
they just follow the pack


14 is more than enough.
matter of fact, on most cut piles, you won't see 14 hg...the meter will be around 12-13 just as Draper has said
(who BTW, isn't a pack follower and is one of the few that CAN figure things out for himself)


One could run as low as 11Hg and still get great dry times ...cause when a wand is "stuck" to the carpet, there isn't much airflow at any HG

It's actually a balancing act between the system's airflow and HG...too much HG can be just as bad as not enough

the advantage of glides and dry times isn't related to holes or slot velocity ...in reality, there's just not a dime's worth of difference between slot, hole and hybrid
The reason they can help some schmoes , is due mostly to the greater surface area that helps prevent wand "lock-down" ..which restricts airflow, which means poor recovery


..L.T.A.

 

[Dolly Llama]

the "correct" HG for any operator's system is contingent on the system, the OP's technique and the carpet pile

only one variable we can't control...the carpet type
On a sculptured/raised berber, mega HG is better....low tight or worn loop/CGD, less HG is better..most cut piles are somewhere in between

Very few will adjust HG to the job ...so set it and forget it at 14


also, not all relief valves are created equal ...some just plain stink...and Knunckle or Bayco (SP??) are awful for our application ...when they pop, HG drops like a rock til they reset .
The "geniuses" that made them a "de jour" thing came up with that stupid cap with holes drilled in it...all because it's the WRONG valve for our application

all that's needed is a good quality spring relief valve at a third to half the co$t of an over engineered (for our application) over priced piece of hardware


..L.T.A.

 

[Mark Saiger]

I run my Butlers at 15 hg (and that is at the red line on the gauge) ....and it might sometimes tweak to 16 on the gauge....but I also do check it quite often with wand on the carpets at different types of carpets, long and short hose runs....

I think some of the setting is also if the waste tank is constructed to hold up to the lift created....

But, I am curious and going to ask my dad as well what he was running units at back in the day....

 

[TConway]

This thread is not to start a war, My buddy just bought a 870, I haven't seen it yet but it LOOKS AWESOME....shoot IT IS AWESOME. I can't wait to to go and do some CGD jobs with him...we are going to work together on some jobs, ZIPPER is going to love it!!!
The question about it is they set it I believe to 13"Hg, maybe 14"Hg even though the blower states 16" Hg. MHO is that 16 would be killer but as I have experienced that is a pretty big strain on belts,motor and mics parts.
So I am just curious if any of you out there have some time on Tm's that have been set to a lower spec.
My buddy brought over his Stanley van and it was a pretty big blower...I didn't dig in and find out what the size was but it was bigger than a 45 for sure.
We did cfm tests and lift tests and the lift came back at like 8" Hg if I recall this right.....That made total sense to me as why there carpet was so wet many times a complaint by customers that have used them.
It sounds like so far that it is pretty common to be sitting around 11"Hg or so while cleaning even with bigger blowers. I was not aware of this, this is why I am asking.
I got the vw fixed but I don't want to overdue again so just trying to get some honest feed back from some vets that have so input. Sounds like 13"Hg is a good target number to stay at.

 

[Desk Jockey]

Generally that lower inches of mercury pulled means they are going after higher CFM.
Its usually one or the other, inches of lift or high CFM.

Higher CFM will dry carpet faster.

 

[TConway]

Saiger" data-source="post: 4389756" class="bbCodeBlock bbCodeBlock--expandable bbCodeBlock--quote js-expandWatch">

I run my Butlers at 15 hg (and that is at the red line on the gauge) ....and it might sometimes tweak to 16 on the gauge....but I also do check it quite often with wand on the carpets at different types of carpets, long and short hose runs....

I think some of the setting is also if the waste tank is constructed to hold up to the lift created....

But, I am curious and going to ask my dad as well what he was running units at back in the day....

Thanks Mark that would be awesome to hear what your dad has to say.

 

[TConway]

Generally that lower inches of mercury pulled means they are going after higher CFM.
Its usually one or the other, inches of lift or high CFM.

Higher CFM will dry carpet faster.

Im getting plenty of cfm for sure, I'm just looking for the best Hg setting without going overboard. I broke a 1" steel shaft messing around with higher Hg, ......I don't want to go through trying to fix that again....I honestly got really lucky I was able to save the crankshaft...snapped it off flush....what a job it was getting it out.

 

[Desk Jockey]

 

[TConway]

View attachment 7372

I love it, I now this sounds so stupid but if I could find a old school clean van to put the vw in I really would, the older vans are just so beat up

 

[Nampa Carpet Cleaning]

I checked my SS 370 the other day with the wand on the carpet and it was at 11 HG. My hose connection leak a little too. The lower the HG the higher the CFM from what I understand. MY 406 blower 306@14 HG so when I'm running at 14 HG it is creating 306 CFM @ 3600 RPM


@16 HG 294
@14 HG 306
@12 HG 317
@10 HG 327

Reference:http://www.gardnerdenverproducts.co.../472/b1709b4a-c1f0-46b9-b89b-bbadff6bc969.pdf

 

[Nampa Carpet Cleaning]

Saiger" data-source="post: 4389756" class="bbCodeBlock bbCodeBlock--expandable bbCodeBlock--quote js-expandWatch">

I run my Butlers at 15 hg (and that is at the red line on the gauge) ....and it might sometimes tweak to 16 on the gauge....but I also do check it quite often with wand on the carpets at different types of carpets, long and short hose runs....

I think some of the setting is also if the waste tank is constructed to hold up to the lift created....

But, I am curious and going to ask my dad as well what he was running units at back in the day....

How many RPM is the blower spinning? It a 4007 correct?

 

[Larry Cobb]

QUOTE="Ruff Hewn, post: 4389743, member: 40108"]
14 is more than enough.
matter of fact, on most cut piles, you won't see 14 hg...the meter will be around 12-13 just as Draper has said

One could run as low as 11Hg and still get great dry times ...cause when a wand is "stuck" to the carpet, there isn't much airflow at any HG

It's actually a balancing act between the system's airflow and HG...too much HG can be just as bad as not enough

..L.T.A.[ QUOTE]

I disagree quite strongly.

Unlike most TM manufacturers, we tested CFM at different hg. lift levels earlier this year.
Using the same 14" wand and hose on a plush carpet with 35HP/ #47 blower TM,
the CFM at the wand decreased from 260 CFM @ 16" hg. to 200 CFM @13" hg .
That was a loss of 23% of actual CFM from a reduction to 13" hg.

We were using a calibrated CFM meter and digital 4 digit lift meter:

CFM increases with an increase in LIFT.

More Details:
http://www.cobbcarpet.com/zen/index.php?main_page=document_general_info&cPath=63&products_id=5319[ QUOTE]

 

[Nampa Carpet Cleaning]

Tri lobe or dual lobe Blower Larry ? The charts state the opposite of what you are saying.

CFM goes up, lift goes down

CFM goes down, lift goes up

I guess it depends on what blower you are testing

 

[Mikey P]

we tested CFM at different hg. lift levels at Nick's BBQ in Wichita Falls earlier this year.

damn, thats even more impressive than NASA dirt testing.




Larry can you say that with a straight face?

 

[Desk Jockey]

I guess it depends on what blower you are testing

Or what state you are from.

Ever'thing is bigger & better from Texas.

 

[Desk Jockey]

damn, thats even more impressive than NASA dirt testing.
Larry can you say that with a straight face?

LOL


"Don't piss down my back and tell me its raining"

 

[Larry Cobb]

Tri lobe or dual lobe Blower Larry ? The charts state the opposite of what you are saying.

CFM goes up, lift goes down

CFM goes down, lift goes up

I guess it depends on what blower you are testing

It was a brand new dual lobe #47 Sutorbuilt.

You are seeing a slight loss of Maximum CFM due to lobe clearances in the blower.

You will not see 300 CFM thru the wand at any time.

 

[A.J.]

QUOTEView attachment 7378="Ruff Hewn, post: 4389743, member: 40108"]
14 is more than enough.
matter of fact, on most cut piles, you won't see 14 hg...the meter will be around 12-13 just as Draper has said

One could run as low as 11Hg and still get great dry times ...cause when a wand is "stuck" to the carpet, there isn't much airflow at any HG

It's actually a balancing act between the system's airflow and HG...too much HG can be just as bad as not enough

..L.T.A.[ QUOTE]

I disagree quite strongly.

Unlike most TM manufacturers, we tested CFM at different hg. lift levels at Nick's BBQ in Wichita Falls earlier this year.
Using the same 14" wand and hose on a plush carpet with 35HP/ #47 blower TM,
the CFM at the wand decreased from 260 CFM @ 16" hg. to 200 CFM @13" hg .
That was a loss of 23% of actual CFM from a reduction to 13" hg.

We were using a calibrated CFM meter and digital 4 digit lift meter:
View attachment 7374

CFM increases with an increase in LIFT.

More Details:
http://www.cobbcarpet.com/zen/index.php?main_page=document_general_info&cPath=63&products_id=5319[ QUOTEView attachment 7379]

Ran your mechine the with the new wand for the first time yesterday. I was lifting the carpet off the floor at tine. A part where the carpet was really really really worn out was just down to the plastic backing after I was done with it lol whoops.
Carpet was extremely dry when I was finished.
Side note, love having a window on a wand..

 

[Larry Cobb]

damn, thats even more impressive than NASA dirt testing.
Larry can you say that with a straight face?

Mikey, perhaps you can explain to the board why Sapphire has a MAX Vac Warning on their TM's of 13" hg.

You toured the factory, but I don't recall any photos of any test instruments at all.

 

[Captain America]

I agree with more cfm,
This will all increase cleaning and dry times.
Larger engines- 30-40 hp
Larger blower at least 4.5-4.7
Zipper
Scrubber to decrease cleaning over and over dirty areas
Better consistent heat- fuel heat is best
Most of these can be done with only a few hundred $$ each,

 

[Desk Jockey]

Sapphire has a MAX Vac Warning on their TM's of 13" hg.

cause some igggnurent carpet cleaners will crank up the lift and then want warranty once they bust it.

 

[Mikey P]

Mikey, perhaps you can explain to the board why Sapphire has a MAX Vac Warning on their TM's of 13" hg.

You toured the factory, but I don't recall any photos of any test instruments at all.

Mike Roden made a special trip to Nick's back yard to come up with his measurements. No photos were taken.

 

[Mikey P]

Mike you may also have some input on this as well as you have worked with a few TM in your cleaning history.

our BIG trucks run at 14" as well.


I've always ran that magic number.

 

[Mikey P]

..and I have to tell you, with the low humidity we have here in the High Chaparral, I'm really not worried about those extended dry outs they suffer in the soaking wet Texan rain forrests

 

[Dolly Llama]

I disagree quite strongly.

that's OK

I'm not "well formulated" like you
I only clean for a living with thousands and thousands of hours on the wand, in the real world on different carpets of every condition and fiber

I do like cOOk-outs though


.L.T.A.

 

[TConway]

Well got my new pulley today!!!! I am going to have it machined down but if I break this bastard then something is really wrong. I am setting at 13-14"hg and thats it.
Sapphire what a AWESOME RIG new 870, got to go over and run it at my buddies house for the first time. Had to adjust water box from overflowing...very easy fix. They worked late getting everything in the van and forgot to tighten up the fittings on the live reels,,,leaked so we got that all taken care of.
Mid heat and it never dropped below 220*
SS I LOVE THE WATER BOX set up, with the exhaust going right through the middle of it for the radiant heat transfer AWESOME AWESOME AWESOME!!!
Just a flipping beast, we are going to do a good size job tonight, I will try and take some videos of it in action.
It was pretty cool...but still the magic lift # in mid rpm was still 13"hg....But it is a TRUE 13"hg with the wand on the carpet.

 

[Mark Saiger]

How many RPM is the blower spinning? It a 4007 correct?

47 Tutlhill.

Van RPM is 1750 and the blower is spinning double for 3500 RPM