dgardner
Moderator
I agree with your comments 100%, but had to laugh because the one of the rocket scientist's vital concerns is GAS flow, pressure and velocity through the rocket nozzle...
Hg's and there affect on dry times.
- Thread starter TConway
- Start date
Nate The Great
Member
Tony Wilson
Member
So from what I'm hearing 14" with my 408 2 inch hose run to a 1 1/2" whip with a green glide for the WIN?
I'm Winning! Thank you Charlie Sheen!
I'm Winning! Thank you Charlie Sheen!
Bob Savage
Member
The reason SS's carpets are left too wet is not their lift setting.
It is because they usually do not do any dry strokes as they are in a hurry to get to the next job, or if they do a dry stroke they do not over-lap properly, since they get paid only on a percentage of the ticket, and not by the hour, and their sales quotas have to be be met. I found this out how? Every time I would hire a former SS guy, we would get complaints from customers that the carpets were taking longer to dry than the last time we cleaned for them, using the same machine. The difference was the former SS Tech we had just hired. So I had to re-train them.
I have gotten great dry times with a setting of 9Hg, and even better dry times using a vac relief cuff at the wand so there is no lock-down occurring ever when cleaning, and the air is ALWAYS flowing through the relief cuff and through the vacuum hose back to the recovery tank. Our wands are either set at a #6 or #8 flow, depending on which wand(s) we use, as we dual wand most every job.
Allowing a constant controlled "air leak" in the vacuum system also reduces fuel consumption, and will give all TM components a longer life due to less stress on the motor, blower, belts, etc. I have posted a few videos while we were cleaning, where you can hear the machine running, and if you listen, there is no up and down on the machine RPM while we are cleaning since there is no lock-down going on.
Just like the clear view tube on the Zipper, I have been using a clear tube on wands for years to determine when there is no more water that can be extracted from the carpet while cleaning to determine correct machine settings and wand techniques.
Larry C made some valid points about lift in his posts. Dan Gardner also makes some awesome posts here. He is one valuable individual to know.
I also understand where most carpet cleaners are coming from. They read about the development of sealing everything in the vacuum system off so it cannot possibly leak ANY of it's vacuum, but you actually want some controlled leakage in order to effect your best vacuum available given the parameters of your truckmount. If you watch a clear tube during extraction, you will see the flow stop when the wand is locked down, and then when the wand is lifted, you will see a rocket blast of water take off to catch up with all the water in the wand head.
Keep in mind that your wand stroke matters. If you don't pick up on the wand head at the end of a stroke, you are not introducing additional CFM into the mix.
If you have a controlled leak, the water has always been moving through the hose during the wand strokes, so instead of the "blast" to catch up, you have a more even flow of water back to the recovery tank all the time during cleaning.
You do not need 16 Hg in a truckmount. I agree it is impressive, but it is also not necessary, and it is actually a determent.
Remember - the inverse relationship between Lift and CFM - you can't get maximum "both" at the same time if you are locking the wand down to the carpet.
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Dolly Llama
Number 5
I'm too dumb to understand fizzicks
but don't have to be a bicycle builder to understand if i put my front wheel against a brick wall, it won't matter how much pressure I put on the peddles...2 pounds or 20..it ain't gonna go very far..
The best place to have an air leak is at wand/carpet fiber interface
That's the idea and reason some did cuts to the wand lips in the"Ole days" before glides
It's also why the tack strip cuts glides get isn't always a bad thing
Actually it's helpful on some low loop wand "lock down" carpets
..L.T.A.
dgardner
Moderator
Absolutely. Don't understand physics? Sure......
GeneMiller
Member
Adjust the wheels on the zipper and introduce your air right at the carpet.
Gene
Gene
I'm too dumb to understand fizzicks
but don't have to be a bicycle builder to understand if i put my front wheel against a brick wall, it won't matter how much pressure I put on the peddles...2 pounds or 20..it ain't gonna go very far..
The best place to have an air leak is at wand/carpet fiber interface
That's the idea and reason some did cuts to the wand lips in the"Ole days" before glides
It's also why the tack strip cuts glides get isn't always a bad thing
Actually it's helpful on some low loop wand "lock down" carpets
..L.T.A.
Yup---just like a bicycle rider doesn't need to understand how the gyroscopic effect of rotating wheels holds you upright.
I used to have a bicycle wheel with handles on the axle I would hand to people and then spin the wheel. I did a lot of school demo/safety classes. It would amaze the kids and the parents how strong the gyroscopic effect is. To explain it---tough until you have felt it.
The carpet cleaner doesn't have to have a grasp of the relationship of lift to CFM to clean well.--
-I love to learn about different industries.
I'd love to start cleaning carpets but I don't want to spend the energy to start another business or tied down. What I do now pays well and takes very little time and I can do it from anywhere with internet access.
I think I said that a couple of pages back....
ronbeatty
Member
Most of the truck mount companies put the relief valve before the waste tank or in it. You are usually drawing air through a 1/4 inch hose to the vac gauge on the front of the unit. This measurement of vacuum does not give an accurate measurement of lift. There are a couple of things that can effect your actual air flow through the unit to the wand. You have to make sure your blower inlet filters are clean, if you run a live reel make sure you limit any 90 degree elbows and most important make sure your filter that catches the debris from the wand is always clean and not restricting your airflow.
I have operated Hydramaster, Butler and Aerotech style units and have never had drytime issues, the key is daily maintenance.
I have operated Hydramaster, Butler and Aerotech style units and have never had drytime issues, the key is daily maintenance.
Mikey P
Administrator
Just how many pounds of premium Stanley Rinse is being pumped through that wand at 9 gph?
With my highly modified POS castex wand I simply ........drilled out some holes.............on the each end of the slot............to prevent lock down.........and thus have constant airflow........to allow the water to move. I discussed this with my friends Stephen Hawkings and Gary Busey and they both agreed.
Larry Cobb
Member
Ron;
This is the digital 2% gauge we were using during our TM vac level testing.
It was measuring at the inlet to the wand.
This is the digital 2% gauge we were using during our TM vac level testing.
It was measuring at the inlet to the wand.
Captain America
Member
I believe all truckmounts should be equipped with a 4.7 blower.
My reasoning is that there is a lot of cfm increase for only a few. Hundred more.
A 33-35 hp engine will spin those and hold power for only 300-500$ more for the engine
And 200$ more for the 4.7 blower over a 4.5 blower
My reasoning is that there is a lot of cfm increase for only a few. Hundred more.
A 33-35 hp engine will spin those and hold power for only 300-500$ more for the engine
And 200$ more for the 4.7 blower over a 4.5 blower
Dolly Llama
Number 5
What's your thoughts on diesel/kero
fuel fired heaters Cap?
LTA
fuel fired heaters Cap?LTA
Dolly Llama
Number 5
Bob Savage
Member
Do not use ANY 1.5" hose with your truckmount - 2" all the way to the wand even when your wand is 1.5" (and you should all be using 2" glided wands, preferably Titanium - minimum #6 flow).
Mikey P
Administrator
Bob Savage
Member
I do not have the Prochem, and I understand it is the cat's meow, so if you can spring for the Prochem, I would suggest doing so. However, If you have a titanium wand that is properly designed with glide, at least 4 jets, and a good shear angle, then that will also work.do you mean Prochem Titanium or any Titanium wand?
renegade_cowboy
Member
Does lift move at a faster velocity than cfm velocity?
SamIam
Member
Just wanted to say the more you add filters and cool cuffs the more leakage you get which effects lift to.
All these efforts to increase cfm at the cost of lift.
I have 2 hoses off my 405, 6 feet 2 inch to a filter which leads to 3 hoses 2.5 inchs totaling 50 ft, 2 12.5 feet and one 25 footer leading to a 40 foot 2 inh hose. I probably would be better served having one 50 foot hose no breaks but the idea is to drop hoses as you get closer to the truck.
But I dont think that truck gets 9 hg.
My newer SS570 sits between 11-12 while on the carpet.
I'm going to run 2 50 foot 2 inch hose with a barb and cuffs and see if it improves the lift.
We do use 5-6 fans and still get great dry times on both trucks maybe my vac guage is off to.
All these efforts to increase cfm at the cost of lift.
I have 2 hoses off my 405, 6 feet 2 inch to a filter which leads to 3 hoses 2.5 inchs totaling 50 ft, 2 12.5 feet and one 25 footer leading to a 40 foot 2 inh hose. I probably would be better served having one 50 foot hose no breaks but the idea is to drop hoses as you get closer to the truck.
But I dont think that truck gets 9 hg.
My newer SS570 sits between 11-12 while on the carpet.
I'm going to run 2 50 foot 2 inch hose with a barb and cuffs and see if it improves the lift.
We do use 5-6 fans and still get great dry times on both trucks maybe my vac guage is off to.
I always thought when I read the blower specs is this, yes cfm will go down when being subjected to a load or vac. But on the specs it tells you
EXAMPLE I am just using numbers
45 blower
spinning at just say 2000 = 250 cfm AND 10" Hg .....and it will take X amount of horse power to get it.
So @Bob Savage
what is boggling my mind is this if you seal or LOCK down the cfm is going to go down it has too right?
So if I can create a AIR gap at the glide/ carpet to ALLOW 10"Hg, and still have air flow, this in fact would be better than 13"Hg sealed?
Is this what you are saying?
This is where it gets heavy for me...Vacuum is the act of removing atmospheric pressure to allow things (soil/water) to move MORE freely up the hose, if I can put my vac hose under a 10"hg, just in the open hose would that not remove soils and water from carpet easier?? When I put the wand on the carpet to clean?
Am I on the right track of thinking or am I off on this?
EXAMPLE I am just using numbers
45 blower
spinning at just say 2000 = 250 cfm AND 10" Hg .....and it will take X amount of horse power to get it.
So @Bob Savage
what is boggling my mind is this if you seal or LOCK down the cfm is going to go down it has too right?
So if I can create a AIR gap at the glide/ carpet to ALLOW 10"Hg, and still have air flow, this in fact would be better than 13"Hg sealed?
Is this what you are saying?
This is where it gets heavy for me...Vacuum is the act of removing atmospheric pressure to allow things (soil/water) to move MORE freely up the hose, if I can put my vac hose under a 10"hg, just in the open hose would that not remove soils and water from carpet easier?? When I put the wand on the carpet to clean?
Am I on the right track of thinking or am I off on this?
Tony Wilson
Member
Speak Chinese! Your in America!!!!
dealtimeman
Everyday is Saturday.
This is why a worn in green glide has some magic as it has a little "gap" as you call it always allowing air to pass through.
Me, I would prefer to set my vac releifs to 15-16 hg and be running at 12-13 while normally cleaning.
A clear tube will tell you the truth about the way you have your system set up.
Me, I would prefer to set my vac releifs to 15-16 hg and be running at 12-13 while normally cleaning.
A clear tube will tell you the truth about the way you have your system set up.
Desk Jockey
Member
Shhheeet! Good thing it was under warranty.
