Encapsulation Questions

[Scott S.]

My response...


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So, your picture, is that at the dilltion rate that you applied it in the dish? crystals form better and faster when in a concentrated form. like a salt solution in a glass of water left to dry it makes some awesome looking crystals. but put just a little in what does it look like then, just a light frosting. crystals are easier to remove the larger they are but how about when they are small. When i was in school we did alot of experiments on crystals and this is why i ask this.

seems to me you would have to do a cleaning with the encap on a brand new pc of carpet, then let it dry completely (maybe for a day) then vac and see what comes out. that way any powder you get would be encap, but you would need to measure out the amount of concentrate you use, let it dry like marty did in his dishs, then weigh it. then vac the new carpet that had the encap treatment (making sure when you used the encap on the new carpet that you used exactly the same weight of liquid from the same container) and weight the amount of powder (if any) that you get. a new vac would be recommended for this test so there is not any contamination.

 

[Desk Jockey]

but i could be wrong, maybe!!!

You arrrre wrong....as usual!

 

[Old Coastie]

You will get far more than powdered crystals. I have found that going back the next day (and using a fresh bag) to post-vacuum, I haul a LOT of dirt and fuzz out.

The quantities can be startling. It is not uncommon to pull more than the first vacuuming! My guess is that the Releasit has loosened the dirt and also made the loose hair and fibers slick enough that they no longer resist being drawn out. In any case, if I am not the guy who will post vac, I try to empty the customers' vacuum and warn them.

It is funny how proud some of the customers are about what they got.

Although my CRB machine or bonnets recover a good deal of soil and sprayed liquid, there are times when it makes sense to do a post encap extraction; heavy soil load, spilled material and some spots. Often in residential jobs I run a fast extraction just because.

My concerns center around the amount of airborne solids that a Non-HEPA vacuum might generate and if they are actually damaging. However, I think we should consider the same issue in play when the customer lofts soil, dander and bacteria for months on end. Since many vacuums are now pretty good at filtering, that helps, but answers would be nice.

 

[hogjowl]

Hmmm ... that's not been my experience.

May be I just vacuum better than you do the first time.

 

[steve_64]

Depending on the agitation used and type of carpeting will determine how much fuzz you remove post vacuuming.

 

[Old Coastie]

Hmmm ... that's not been my experience.

May be I just vacuum better than you do the first time.

LOL, maybe. Maybe I post vac better than you do.

 

[Jim Pemberton]

This has been a terrific conversation, thank you all who have posted your feelings and experiences thus far, and for those that havent yet, please do.

Even Jimmy Ladwig and Larry Capitoni; the feelings both of you have shared over the years have influenced my decision to do some deep research on this topic.

While I await posting some of things I think as a result of what you've shared, and what I've researched, think through this saying that flies against what we have been often taught about life and living, but in this case, might be true:

"We don't need the courage of our convictions, we need the courage to challenge our convictions"

 

[WillS]

Not getting into this one...

 

[steamron]

Several years back I decided to get a Cimex, mainly due to the forums that talked so much about Encapping.

This may help Jim,
I have used several products,
Releasit DS,
Brigdepoint,
Cimex USA, they are in Tallmadge Ohio, they are the distributors for Cimex. So when you order a new Cimex from anyone it is more then likely drop shipped from this location.
Prochem.

I have some commercial jobs that are Olefin and encapping does a good job for appearance.
Every so often I get the bug to use my Prochem TM to clean it, then I want to kick my own ass, because every time the machine gets so bogged down with foam I have to stop and apply defoamer.
So all you folks who are thinking that maybe we did not vacuum well to pick up all that encapsulated crystals your wrong.

I have gone back one day, two days a week later and would take a clean white terry towel and scrub by hand and the towel always gets dirty.

Encapping has it place but does it clean extremely well? NO
If you want to clean well, remove soil, contaminates and etc. you must extract.

 

[Mikey P]

So what really makes today's Encap shampoos so much more effective than the slop from 20 or even 10 years ago?

It can't be just the added polymer



or is it just the aggressiveness of the Cimex and Don King OP units?

 

[Mikey P]

If you want to clean well, remove soil, contaminates and etc. you must extract.

and then "Cimex "up" the wicking...

 

[hogjowl]

I cleaned a country club with scrub and run for over 8 years before finally extracting it. I had no foam issues of any grave concern.

 

[Jim Pemberton]

Great comments everyone. I'll be starting a new thread soon.

Just some food for thought (and many of you commented on this already)

"What happens to the dirt?"

This isn't like "What happens after we die?" That is an answer that has to do with faith. What happens with the dirt is not an answer that should be discussed based on faith, but on science and testing.

....but does such testing and science exist?

 

[steve_64]

Customers like the results and it makes money.

Its a no brainer. Just know when to use it.

 

[Jimmy L]

All marketing BS.

The good ones just leave a DRY RESIDUE.

No "Encapsulation" the proof is in the post vac bag.................there is nothing there.

DRY RESIDUE ONLY

 

[Jim Pemberton]

I was hoping to hear from you Jimmy.

I hope you'll follow the other threads that will start on this subject, and comment freely.

 

[Lee Stockwell]

VW diesels come to mind...

 

[Scott S.]

All marketing BS.

The good ones just leave a DRY RESIDUE.

No "Encapsulation" the proof is in the post vac bag.................there is nothing there.

DRY RESIDUE ONLY

Jimmy, do you want me to make you a video on how to encapsulate carpet? or how to turn the machine on that we use?

 

[Jimmy L]

I'm afraid it is beyond your scope of understanding. My Gawd you have to show videos of a temp gauge for sake!

 

[J Brown]

soil displacement

 

[Jimmy L]

Keep drinking the koolaid Jeff.

 

[dgardner]

but don't spill any...

 

[Scott S.]

I'm afraid it is beyond your scope of understanding. My Gawd you have to show videos of a temp gauge for sake!

says the man who never helps but always criticizes everyone else. , and yes i can make another video of the temp gages for you. geez thought you saw the ones i already made.

 

[J Brown]

Jimmy, read my post again, slower this time, I think you'll agree.

 

[Desk Jockey]

slower this time

 

[Scott S.]

Great comments everyone. I'll be starting a new thread soon.

Just some food for thought (and many of you commented on this already)

"What happens to the dirt?"

This isn't like "What happens after we die?" That is an answer that has to do with faith. What happens with the dirt is not an answer that should be discussed based on faith, but on science and testing.

....but does such testing and science exist?

IS the dirt is smeared around giving the carpet an even appearance that makes the customers think its clean? the polymers also help refract light helping the carpet look brighter, floor finishes cheat this same way. the floor once waxed with 3 plus coats will appear to be the same color at the lights in the room. optical brighteners

 

[rick imby]

Carpets naturally trap dirt. And the agitation of walking on the carpet helps the dry dirt fall to the bottom of the carpet.. That is why the air quality of a reasonable clean carpeted house is better than a hard floor house. Kinda like dirt falling into a forest. Once if falls off the branches of the trees and makes it to the ground the wind can no longer pick it up.

Both HWE and VLM break the bond the dirt has with the carpet fiber that is visible.
With HWE a lot of that dirt gets suspended and ends up in your waste tank. The 20% of the water you leave in the carpet is dirty (probably the dirtiest water) and that will filter down into the carpet after the water evaporates.

With VLM the agitation and chemical separate the dirt from the fibers we can see. If it is a couple of days before it gets well vacuumed then the traffic agitation will allow the dirt to fall to the bottom of the carpet. There is no vacuum or surface cleaning that will pull dirt from a carpet that has filtered down to the backing.

From the rug cleaning industry where you can actually get the dirt out of the backing of the rug we have learned that you can talk all you want about deep cleaning with HWE but it is merely appearance/ surface cleaning along with VLM.

 

[WillS]

Carpets naturally trap dirt. And the agitation of walking on the carpet helps the dry dirt fall to the bottom of the carpet.. That is why the air quality of a reasonable clean carpeted house is better than a hard floor house. Kinda like dirt falling into a forest. Once if falls off the branches of the trees and makes it to the ground the wind can no longer pick it up.

Both HWE and VLM break the bond the dirt has with the carpet fiber that is visible.
With HWE a lot of that dirt gets suspended and ends up in your waste tank. The 20% of the water you leave in the carpet is dirty (probably the dirtiest water) and that will filter down into the carpet after the water evaporates.

With VLM the agitation and chemical separate the dirt from the fibers we can see. If it is a couple of days before it gets well vacuumed then the traffic agitation will allow the dirt to fall to the bottom of the carpet. There is no vacuum or surface cleaning that will pull dirt from a carpet that has filtered down to the backing.

From the rug cleaning industry where you can actually get the dirt out of the backing of the rug we have learned that you can talk all you want about deep cleaning with HWE but it is merely appearance/ surface cleaning along with VLM.

Best post yet.

 

[Desk Jockey]

Best post yet.

From a bike geek! Some goof on a trike!


J/K

Rick is one sharp dude!

Yesum.....he learnt it all from me, he did!

 

[ruff]

Disagree with the bicycle man.

If we are talking perfection, then yes, hot water extraction will leave some dirty water in, therefore the carpet is not 100% clean. True.
I am also willing to bet that most rug cleaners, if you took the clean rug and immersed it in water, it will still release some soil. Much less than after steam cleaning, but still will.
Encap on the other hand....

So we are not talking perfection, but degrees of soil removal. We empty (to a degree) the carpet's pollutant content and sure enough, the consumer, immediately thereafter, diligently works hard on bringing it back. Talk about job security

There's a simple test that will answer all these questions. Take a couple of 10x10 area carpets and clean each according to the recommended procedure. One will be encapsulated, the other steam cleaned. Do it a few times and then immerse both rugs in a big tub and see what comes out.

Also important: What does the left over soil and detergent residue (be it encap or anything else) do health wise to the inhabitants and what exposure do they get from airborne residue?