Cleaning with Encapsulation + Dry Compound

[regarossa]

First off, I'm usually a lurker here but love to read the posts...Mike convinced me to post these so blame him. Anyways, we have probably met some of you at the trade shows and Mike's get togethers. I am one of the fellas at Carpet Cleaner America and we are the guys that import the real CRB machines from Austria you know as the Brush Pro and Brushencap.

Okay, so before you pull out the swords and sticks on me for mentioning this process, I want to share some before and after pics using encapsulation and dry compound on really nasty carpet.
So have a look and let it fly.

Background- The carpet pictured below is a mat being used in the service area of a large cleaning supply distributor in Ft Myers FL. They said it hadn’t been cleaned in years. This was to be my demo area for an open house vendor show. When I first asked them if they had any carpet I could use to demo our low moisture process with, they dropped this in front of me with a laugh and “good luck with that” comment.

Process- I pre-scrubbed the carpet dry using the renovator pick up trays to remove as much dry soil as possible before adding any chemistry. Then I mixed the encap very aggressive- 50/50 mix and pre-scrubbed it in before sprinkling the compound onto the areas and brushing it in as well. Then using the renovators again, I picked up all the used, dirty, black compound from the fibers. As you can see I taped off each area being cleaned and pulled off the tape to reveal a very distinct line of clean vs dirty. Each area was addressed twice with this procedure and it was dry within 15-20 min with no air movers. I did leave the far right portion untouched to show the pre-cleaned condition to potential customers.

For those of you who have entertained adding this process to your arsenal, I just wanted to allow you to see some real world “oil tracked up” results. If you have a CRB machine, do yourself a favor and try it. It can be a very effective option to add to what you already offer…especially in the commercial atmosphere.

 

[J Scott W]

Reg's marvelous dry compound is available from Interlink Supply - http://interlinksupply.com/index.php?item_num=CC604B
I would not use it for every encap job, but it does an amazing job for greasy oily areas where encap may need a little boost.

For anyone who is interested in the full sized 20" Brush Pro, there is a great deal for it on www.interlinksupply.com This sale price was a bit of a mix-up that was not intended to be posted. But since it was out there, I decided to leave it for 1 day. Sale price is good until midnight tonight mountain time zone. No need to buy 15 but it would be nice to sell that many and get me out of the dog house for letting that sale price show up today.

You can click the "Daily Deals" banner to see it. There are other specials, different each day when you click the banner.

 

[Desk Jockey]

I think Ofer inquired about the full sized one when they did the group buy.
@Ofer Kolton

 

[Jimmy L]

That adaption of the method is not new. Been out there for a very very long time.

 

[GeneMiller]

Is he main ingredient in the powder sawdust

 

[Scott S.]

ill post some pics on here in a couple min of my results with the brush pro and encap. stay tuned. gotta pull them off my phone.

 

[Shorty]

Reg, thanks for this post.

I have a couple of questions.

Does the dry compound get airborne?
I used a powder many years ago in a franchise clothing store where the powder became airborne, settling on all of the black (& other colored clothing) in the store.
That was the first & last time I ever used it.

How does it compare when cleaning commercial properties for time?
I do have a small CRB, but it takes forever to clean large areas due to the small hopper which collects the waste water.
This makes it impractical for me.

Approx; how many F2 can you clean before the hopper needs emptying??
I can't even manage a normal size bedroom with mine without emptying the hopper. ( http://hakoaustralia.com.au/documents/4a780107b87fd786ec1862f880c0e1cb.pdf )
Each time the hopper is emptied, I have to scrape the big wheel free of debris which accumulates against the supports.
I have the W 34.

Lastly, is this your machine exported down under?
http://bennettdirect.com.au/productsheet/Dry & Wet Cleaner_1.pdf

Thanks.

 

[Mark Saiger]

Got to say, even though I have not had the opportunity to use our little 10 inch CRB units for encapsulation or such... They sure are great little units and we love them.

I wouldn't be afraid to try this or other encap with them and we have had great luck with them.

7 years of abusing them as agitation machines and still working fantastic. Finally put some bearings in them this year.

Thanks for posting and being here

I reccomend your little 10 inch units all the time

 

[Scott S.]

 

[Scott S.]

I have a couple of questions.

Does the dry compound get airborne?
I used a powder many years ago in a franchise clothing store where the powder became airborne, settling on all of the black (& other colored clothing) in the store.
That was the first & last time I ever used it.
I use the brush pro compound and no it does not become airborne.

How does it compare when cleaning commercial properties for time?
I do have a small CRB, but it takes forever to clean large areas due to the small hopper which collects the waste water.
This makes it impractical for me.

i can encap office areas at around 2000 sq ft an hour, thats going around a bunch of stuff.
i can encap/compound at around 1400-1500 sq ft an hour.
im sure some people can do it alot quicker.
im also using the brush pro 20.

Approx; how many F2 can you clean before the hopper needs emptying??
I can't even manage a normal size bedroom with mine without emptying the hopper. ( http://hakoaustralia.com.au/documents/4a780107b87fd786ec1862f880c0e1cb.pdf )
Each time the hopper is emptied, I have to scrape the big wheel free of debris which accumulates against the supports.
I have the W 34.
i have the brush pro 20, bought at pembertons 3-4 years ago. i can encap a whole building and not fill the bins, compound/encap though, about 1500 sq ft.
we vac all carpet before starting, usually one guy out in front, then i encap right behind him/her.
i also have a spotting machine i take incase i come across a spill or something that needs spotted and extracted ( i use encapuguard in the rinse water, or clean free)

hope this helps.

Lastly, is this your machine exported down under?
http://bennettdirect.com.au/productsheet/Dry & Wet Cleaner_1.pdf

Thanks.

 

[regarossa]

Reg, thanks for this post.

I have a couple of questions.

Does the dry compound get airborne?
I used a powder many years ago in a franchise clothing store where the powder became airborne, settling on all of the black (& other colored clothing) in the store.
That was the first & last time I ever used it.

How does it compare when cleaning commercial properties for time?
I do have a small CRB, but it takes forever to clean large areas due to the small hopper which collects the waste water.
This makes it impractical for me.

Approx; how many F2 can you clean before the hopper needs emptying??
I can't even manage a normal size bedroom with mine without emptying the hopper. ( http://hakoaustralia.com.au/documents/4a780107b87fd786ec1862f880c0e1cb.pdf )
Each time the hopper is emptied, I have to scrape the big wheel free of debris which accumulates against the supports.
I have the W 34.

Lastly, is this your machine exported down under?
http://bennettdirect.com.au/productsheet/Dry & Wet Cleaner_1.pdf

Thanks.

Hi Shorty- Thanks for the reply....Ill answer the questions in the order asked:

1- Does the dry compound get airborne? Our compound does not get airborne. Our formula differs from most other dry compounds as we eliminate the fine particles. This does two things- keeps it down and out of the air and then enables it to release from the fibers easier resulting in a far better pick up at the end of the procedure- the 'brush out" phase. The finer the particle size, the harder it is to remove from the carpet. We just filter them out.

2- How does it compare when cleaning commercial properties for time? For me and anyone that I speak with that uses this process on a regular basis, it's about the same if not faster. Part of the difference is in the setup/loading time which is greatly reduced. As far as the actual process, it's about the same if you are cleaning correctly. I ran a TM for years and could fly through a job (in my reckless youth years) or go really slow and take my time to do it right, so it really depends on the situation. I assume by the picture you have a hard surface rotowash type machine that you use on carpet? Our hoppers are the type on the second link. They attach to the front and back and can hold a lot of debris.

3- Approx; how many F2 can you clean before the hopper needs emptying?? That depends on how much compound you put down on the carpet. Approach compound application like a traffic lane cleaner, you only put it down in areas that you are processing because it will dry out before it's done its work. So, say for 1000sf I would process that in 200sf blocks. When you notice the pick up is diminishing, empty the hoppers.

4- Lastly, is this your machine exported down under? Good question let me look into that and get back to you on it. What major city are you nearest? The Bennett direct pic looks our machines from Austria so are they near you?


Gene asked about the compound being sawdust- It is made from wood. However it's a very specific particle size and sawdust is a myriad of different sizes. Also we do not have any fillers like other compounds do. Some add corn cob fillers in theirs that can leave discolorations on white carpets. We do not have any fillers of that nature.

 

[ruff]

Reg, glad to have you here. And that's very good info.

1. How does your compound work on wool rugs?
2. How is it on thick (long staple fiber) and or large loops. Is there a problem getting it out from the bottom of the pile.
3. Is the renovator the only tool you use to vacuum it out, or do you also use a vacuum cleaner?
4. When using on a rug, at home, do a lot of the compound get spread around on the floor?
5. Do you usually need to use an encap prior to the use of the compound?
6. Mixing the encap that strong, is there an issue with residue and re-soiling and the feel of the carpet thereafter?

Thanks.

 

[Scott S.]

Hi Shorty- Thanks for the reply....Ill answer the questions in the order asked:

1- Does the dry compound get airborne? Our compound does not get airborne. Our formula differs from most other dry compounds as we eliminate the fine particles. This does two things- keeps it down and out of the air and then enables it to release from the fibers easier resulting in a far better pick up at the end of the procedure- the 'brush out" phase. The finer the particle size, the harder it is to remove from the carpet. We just filter them out.

2- How does it compare when cleaning commercial properties for time? For me and anyone that I speak with that uses this process on a regular basis, it's about the same if not faster. Part of the difference is in the setup/loading time which is greatly reduced. As far as the actually process, it's about the same if you are cleaning correctly. I ran a TM for years and could fly through a job (in my reckless youth years) or go really slow and take my time to do it right, so it really depends on the situation. I assume by the picture you have a hard surface rotowash type machine that you use on carpet? Our hoppers are the type on the second link. They attach to the front and back and can hold a lot of debris.

3- Approx; how many F2 can you clean before the hopper needs emptying?? That depends on how much compound you put down on the carpet. Approach compound application like a traffic lane cleaner, you only put it down in areas that you are processing because it will dry out before it's done its work. So, say for 1000sf I would process that in 200sf blocks. When you notice the pick up is diminishing, empty the hoppers.

4- Lastly, is this your machine exported down under? Good question let me look into that and get back to you on it. What major city are you nearest? The Bennett direct pic looks our machines from Austria so are they near you?


Gene asked about the compound being sawdust- It is made from wood. However it's a very specific particle size and sawdust is a myriad of different sizes. Also we do not have any fillers like other compounds do. Some add corn cob fillers in theirs that can leave discolorations on white carpets. We do not have any fillers of that nature.

which compound are you using Regarossa?

 

[regarossa]

which compound are you using Regarossa?

BRUSH PRO !!

 

[Shorty]

Scot & Reg, thank you both for your replies, very informative & have confirmed several things for me.

Correct in what you say "hard surface rotowash type machine".

This was purchased for the cleaning of Flotex type installations.

I can see the benefits & difference of the double hopper that you use.

I am over a thousand miles from my nearest major city, nearly two thousand from Bennett Direct, but we have a good relationship with them.

You have both been very helpful in your replies which I appreciate.

Scott's photo's tell the story and saved more than a thousand words.

Even down to the FlexiPro applicator.

Guess I'm going to be in deep doo-doo now with Jimmy.

 

[J Scott W]

Reg, glad to have you here. And that's very good info.

1. How does your compound work on wool rugs? I love the encap and compound for wool rugs when for some reason low moisture is required. We had some sisal rugs, some hand-tufted wool and cotton with latex backing that was old and crumbly. Cleaned those with Encapuclean O2, plus Brush Pro Dry Compound and Brush Pro machine. Looked great. No moisture issues.
2. How is it on thick (long staple fiber) and or large loops. Is there a problem getting it out from the bottom of the pile. Not every bit came out using the Brush Pro or the vacuum. But most of it did. I tested against Host powder and the Brush Pro powder released much better due to the lack of ifner particles that Reg spoke about. With a rug, the pile was dense enough that no powder was visible unless you opned the face yarns by hand and peered down.
3. Is the renovator the only tool you use to vacuum it out, or do you also use a vacuum cleaner? Teh Brush Pro with renovators gets most of it. I also got some additional powder with using a Pro Team vacuum. What you do on a job may depend upon the level of service you offer.
4. When using on a rug, at home, do a lot of the compound get spread around on the floor? I have only done in shop, not at homes.
5. Do you usually need to use an encap prior to the use of the compound? I applied Encapuclean O2 across the entire rug or carpet, then added some Brush Pro Dry Compound in spots like traffic lanes. Then used the Brush Pro tool to agitate and clean.
6. Mixing the encap that strong, is there an issue with residue and re-soiling and the feel of the carpet thereafter? A good encap product should leave some polymer in the carpet that acts against resoiling, rather like a carpet protector. Resoiling has not been an issue.

Thanks.

I'm not Reg, but I added a few comments from my own experience. Hopefully Reg will add to this.

 

[Scott S.]

i have used the encapuclean green and the brush pro compound on a ton of commercial jobs, and i usually try to keep them on a maintenance schedule to keep it cleaner where it does not require hwe except for where there is large amounts of salt, and sugary spills.

that area you saw in my picture was at a place that gets oily soil from machine shops, and hence why i used the compound. i use the battery powered sprayer, but if your doing a whole building you might want to invest in a multisprayer as the battery powered sprayer doesn't last forever and you would have to wait for it to charge.
i usually encap over a heavily soiled area to see if it needs further treatment if it does i break out the compound, spray again heavily, apply compound by hand, spray again then without the bins on run over everything, big long areas first then detail around object, bad areas ago across from two directions ---> then ^^^ then once your are satisfied just go around again on your way to the bins you have set aside, then throw the bins on and go over the area slowly and it will pick up the compound, if any compound remains just vac it up. the compound will absorb some of the soil and it will get darker, the compound has some solvency that helps with oily soils.

Encapuclean green ds
http://interlinksupply.com/index.php?item_num=CC15GL&ref=cab

Encapuclean O2
http://interlinksupply.com/index.php?item_num=CC17GL

brush pro compound
http://interlinksupply.com/index.php?item_num=CC604B

multisprayer
http://interlinksupply.com/index.php?item_num=AS77

others here will tell you other things work, and thats fine.

 

[regarossa]

Reg, glad to have you here. And that's very good info.

1. How does your compound work on wool rugs?
2. How is it on thick (long staple fiber) and or large loops. Is there a problem getting it out from the bottom of the pile.
3. Is the renovator the only tool you use to vacuum it out, or do you also use a vacuum cleaner?
4. When using on a rug, at home, do a lot of the compound get spread around on the floor?
5. Do you usually need to use an encap prior to the use of the compound?
6. Mixing the encap that strong, is there an issue with residue and re-soiling and the feel of the carpet thereafter?

Thanks.

Hi Ofer..glad to be here.

1- Yes as it's certified Woolsafe... neutral PH... The worst thing about a wool carpet is the shedding. Go with the delicate brushes ... (I prefer to lean on the guys that are experts in wool rug cleaning. Some of them even use Brush Pro's in their wash pits.)
2- In the residential atmosphere you definitely see some challenges. Large loops tend to hold onto the particles somewhat so I would lean heavier on the encap method after heavy dry soil removal. Go sparing with the compound and extra passes on the pick up and you shouldn't have any issues. Keep in mind that this process is mainly a commercial focused method. Tight, short loops/cut piles are preferred. The longer the fiber the more the dry passes before and after will be needed. We see it being used more and more in residential however.
3- The Renovators catch what the brushes pull out. It's stunning how much dry soil these machines will pull out of carpet. However, I don't go anywhere without a backpack vacuum. Corners, stairs and edges present their own challenges so you want to be prepared for that. We also make a special renovator that has a vacuum port for use with a backpack vac. Just plug the electric into the back of the machine and attach the vacuum nozzle to the renovator and you have the worlds greatest vacuum.
4- Sometimes it can get tracked in areas you don't want it from your shoes but that's another reason to have a backpack vac.
5- It depends on soil level....typically yes. If it needs to be dry asap such as a casino or an airport, light on the prespray (if any, save for spots) and heavy on the compound. Make sure you bid it correctly too.
6- Typically no but it depends on the encap your using. Not all encaps are created equal. I prefer an encap that does it's job then flake away. No tricks... When used at high strengths, follow it with compound to combat any negative affect. Resoiling depends on the encap. Ours and most others do not re-soil as that's their primary intention. However, I am sure there are some with issues as it seems everyone is jumping in the encap pool. Test them all.

 

[ruff]

Reg and Scott W. thank you for the thorough responses.

Some of my high end clients have Stark, Wilton etc. area carpets. In other words woven material. At times these rugs will not take steam cleaning, even with reduced heat (for wool), wool safe products, low PSi and even cleaning on the pull only. Some are too high of a risk to take. Some of the houses have such fancy wood floors that I hesitate to get the hoses in, or need to have a very long run of protectors on the floor. Not even knowing how this wood respond to any moisture and we know that if you steam clean, moisture will get on the floor. It's a big hassle.

It occurred to me that in theses circumstances this process will work well. Host supposedly did. I know that some of these rugs are done by a company that uses an oscillating machine. I wonder if the machine with compound only would work well (I'd hate to load these expensive rugs with residue) (yes I know the story and party line with encap) particularly in the home indoor environment.

Your thoughts.

 

[Scott S.]

Reg and Scott W. thank you for the thorough responses.

Some of my high end clients have Stark, Wilton etc. area carpets. In other words woven material. At times these rugs will not take steam cleaning, even with reduced heat (for wool), wool safe products, low PSi and even cleaning on the pull only. Some are too high of a risk to take. Some of the houses have such fancy wood floors that I hesitate to get the hoses in, or need to have a very long run of protectors on the floor. Not even knowing how this wood respond to any moisture and we know that if you steam clean, moisture will get on the floor. It's a big hassle.

It occurred to me that in theses circumstances this process will work well. Host supposedly did. I know that some of these rugs are done by a company that uses an oscillating machine. I wonder if the machine with compound only would work well (I'd hate to load these expensive rugs with residue) (yes I know the story and party line with encap) particularly in the home indoor environment.

Your thoughts.

ive used encap on residential carpet, works well. used encap when it was too cold to hwe. ive used encap in my own house and it works, is it better than hwe. no.

 

[Desk Jockey]

Ofer if I were you I would rent the CRB from Interlink next time you have one of these jobs. Decide for yourself if you can achieve the results you desire. If it works for you buy a unit, if it doesn't you really haven't lost much. The cleaning charge will cover your time, rental and compound.

I think with the difficulties you listed, it just might be your answer. Me experience with this type of cleaning is it works well on lightly soiled carpet. It would be worth the try if you ask me.

Maybe Scott could apply the rental towards purchase for you. Then you have no risk.???

 

[regarossa]

Reg and Scott W. thank you for the thorough responses.

Some of my high end clients have Stark, Wilton etc. area carpets. In other words woven material. At times these rugs will not take steam cleaning, even with reduced heat (for wool), wool safe products, low PSi and even cleaning on the pull only. Some are too high of a risk to take. Some of the houses have such fancy wood floors that I hesitate to get the hoses in, or need to have a very long run of protectors on the floor. Not even knowing how this wood respond to any moisture and we know that if you steam clean, moisture will get on the floor. It's a big hassle.

It occurred to me that in theses circumstances this process will work well. Host supposedly did. I know that some of these rugs are done by a company that uses an oscillating machine. I wonder if the machine with compound only would work well (I'd hate to load these expensive rugs with residue) (yes I know the story and party line with encap) particularly in the home indoor environment.

Your thoughts.

Ofer-

This would absolutely qualify as the perfect scenario for this method.

 

[Jimmy L]

For what it is why is the compound so expensive?

I know "Capture" powder is a little bit different but it can be purchased at home depot in a small bucket.

 

[Desk Jockey]

First you have to cut the tree down, save the saw dust, impregnate the saw dust with cleaner & deodorant and then vacuum package it. That's a hell of a lot of work James.

 

[Zee]

At least you can go paperless in your business... No trees are cut down...




...oh wait!

 

[ruff]

Hey, Richard is coming to our new place this winter to chop wood.
His work is cheap (I think he said he'll work for a Chesney song.)
Reg can we send you some logs for a discount?
Since he's traveling light, he'll bring them when he flies back.

P.S. Good question Jimmy.

 

[Desk Jockey]

*No trees were harmed in this post

 

[Scott S.]

For what it is why is the compound so expensive?

I know "Capture" powder is a little bit different but it can be purchased at home depot in a small bucket.

capture at home depot is $8 for 4 lbs, so 5 containers is 20lbs for $40 and Capture still needs the "capture spray put on before cleaning" so add some more cost there.
brush pro compound is $50 for 20lbs plus the encapsulation cleaner for it


so just the products by themselves without the encap or capture spray is $10 differance.

but capture is a powder, and brush pro compound is sawdust.

so here is my questions.

1.would you really want to be caught by your customer using consumer products and not professional products in their home or business?
2.are you going to clean all that powder up with your vac, are you using bags, are you going to wipe down your beater bar when your done?

 

[J Scott W]

Reg and Scott W. thank you for the thorough responses.

Some of my high end clients have Stark, Wilton etc. area carpets. In other words woven material. At times these rugs will not take steam cleaning, even with reduced heat (for wool), wool safe products, low PSi and even cleaning on the pull only. Some are too high of a risk to take. Some of the houses have such fancy wood floors that I hesitate to get the hoses in, or need to have a very long run of protectors on the floor. Not even knowing how this wood respond to any moisture and we know that if you steam clean, moisture will get on the floor. It's a big hassle.

It occurred to me that in theses circumstances this process will work well. Host supposedly did. I know that some of these rugs are done by a company that uses an oscillating machine. I wonder if the machine with compound only would work well (I'd hate to load these expensive rugs with residue) (yes I know the story and party line with encap) particularly in the home indoor environment.

Your thoughts.

We clean Stark rugs, Wilton rugs, custom made tufted rugs with lots of pices seemed together and sisal rugs in our rug cleaning classes and use the compound and Brush Pro. This is exactly the right thing for these rugs.

I would hesitate to use the OP machine with just compound. I doubt there would be enough lubrication. Might fuzz up the rug.

 

[Desk Jockey]

I like the "saw dust better than the synthetic powder. While both are difficult to remove, the powder seems much harder due to particle size.

and you guys are worried about a few ounces of Encap solution spread over several hundred feet.

Weigh how much compound you spread and how much you recover. But don't worry...it keeps working for you....until it dries out and decides to join the other side.

Seriously vacuuming is where the real work is being done. Don't rush the vacuuming!