ruff
Member
First time that I've ever heard about it.
But then I always get you confused with Marty
How do you decide which PTO is best for you and which is a better machine?
- Thread starter ruff
- Start date
First time that I've ever heard about it.
But then I always get you confused with Marty
Dolly Llama
Number 5
First time that I've ever heard about it.
But then I always get you confused with Marty
I'm the better looking one ...
..L.T.A.
Joe Appleby
Supportive Member
Well this is a timely thread. We've owned many Hydramaster CDS units over the years and been satisfied. We currently have 7. I'm ready for a new (Hydramaster?) machine. One of my local distributors has become disappointed with the direction Hydramaster has taken. He says the quality of the machine has gone downhill due to cutbacks on parts and fabrication. One thing I've noticed is the plastic fittings to the heat exchangers melt. They use to be brass. The water box is no longer wielded to the waste tank, but held on by tacked on nuts. Also, some the replacement parts have gone up considerably. Is anyone else aware of such changes in the newer machines. I know this product well and hate to move away from it.
The Great Oz
Member
The HydraMaster CDS works well for us. Low weight, space saving design, reliable. Ordered two in May and have two more coming in October, but we put off routine trade-outs for a couple of years so I'll have to see if we have any issues with melty fittings.
ruff
Member
Bryan, have you used any other PTOs?
And if so, what was your experience.
I know that HM is practically in your back yard, which is a great advantage.
And if so, what was your experience.
I know that HM is practically in your back yard, which is a great advantage.
hogjowl
Idiot™
I have stayed out of this thread and failed to defend my good name all for the sake of trying to keep this thread professional. All in hopes that somewhere, somehow, some good and practical information will be shared.
So far ... nothing ...
So far ... nothing ...
Mikey P
Administrator
John Olson
Member
As someone that sells machines and has seen and serviced nearly every machine made (except the new 1200) there is only one machine that I don't argue with if I lose a sale to one and that is a Hydrmaster CDS. There is nothing bad I can say against the machine except the standard "cons" against a CDS. If I was going to buy a CDS/PTO machine it would be a Hydramaster. If Hydrmaster would finally decide to let me sell just the CDS we would be selling them today.. I don't think I could give a better review on a machine we do not sell. As for the 1200 I have zero experience with it so this isn't a one is better then the other comment.
Desk Jockey
Member
I agree is a good machine and it is the machine that set the benchmark.
But if you're going to spend that much why not get stainless? We didn't have the Salsa or higher vacuum if that is available but those are the areas the Butler had over our CDS's.
That may have changed since its been several years back but at the time the CDS's were second choice here. The top two tech's chose to use to the Butlers first, then other crews used the CDS's.
But if you're going to spend that much why not get stainless? We didn't have the Salsa or higher vacuum if that is available but those are the areas the Butler had over our CDS's.
That may have changed since its been several years back but at the time the CDS's were second choice here. The top two tech's chose to use to the Butlers first, then other crews used the CDS's.
Sapphire Savant
Member
At this time Sapphire Scientific is not planning on offering this. According to Ron Williams, the Product Engineer for the Pro 1200, adding water to any blower promotes rust and cools exhaust temperature. Since blower exhaust heat is used for heating the cleaning water and also helps keep blower moisture at a minimum, which prolongs blower life, it seemed in the best interest of performance and customer satisfaction to not make the offering.
Prior to releasing the new Sapphire Scientific version of the Pro 1200 distributors were surveyed and the overwhelming response was to only offer it with the Vulcan heat exchanger and not offer the water injected high vacuum unit due to customer demand for heat, also to not not offer high vacuum, due to complexity and potential resulting issues arising from that.
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hogjowl
Idiot™
Complexity of design should be avoided where ever possible.
But putting that aside for a moment, I would prefer high vacuum over high heat ANY day.
But putting that aside for a moment, I would prefer high vacuum over high heat ANY day.
doylebloss
Supportive Member
Joe Appleby, as a valued HydraMaster customer, we appreciate your feedback on the fittings going to the heat exchanger on your CDS units. In response to several comments from valued customers like you, we are already in the process of switching back to the brass fittings you referenced. Rest assured, we like hearing directly from our customers, even when the feedback is not as positive as we would like. That is how we can improve things on our end.</SPAN></SPAN>
We have not had reports of issues or an increase in warranty claims related to the welding you mention, but we have passed along your concerns to our engineering and customer care teams. They will get in touch with you personally and also I will update this thread with the feedback I receive from them. </SPAN></SPAN>
We are extremely confident should you choose to add another CDS to your fleet, you will find it to be performing at the high level you have come to expect, and you can count on us and your distributor to support you. We appreciate the many positive comments from CDS owners on this thread and promise to continue to work hard to earn and keep your loyalty.</SPAN></SPAN>
Regards,</SPAN></SPAN>
Doyle Bloss</SPAN></SPAN>
Marketing and Brand Manager</SPAN></SPAN>
HydraMaster</SPAN></SPAN>
We have not had reports of issues or an increase in warranty claims related to the welding you mention, but we have passed along your concerns to our engineering and customer care teams. They will get in touch with you personally and also I will update this thread with the feedback I receive from them. </SPAN></SPAN>
We are extremely confident should you choose to add another CDS to your fleet, you will find it to be performing at the high level you have come to expect, and you can count on us and your distributor to support you. We appreciate the many positive comments from CDS owners on this thread and promise to continue to work hard to earn and keep your loyalty.</SPAN></SPAN>
Regards,</SPAN></SPAN>
Doyle Bloss</SPAN></SPAN>
Marketing and Brand Manager</SPAN></SPAN>
HydraMaster</SPAN></SPAN>
Mikey P
Administrator
Doyle are you able to discuss the switch from Briggs motors to Kohlers on all your slide in's?
How will that effect the current line up of machines?
Im also curious as to why you guys use a transfer pump and water box system on the cds when a unit like the pro1200 gets around it?
I'm currently deciding which of the two units will be in my future so your comments are very much appreciated
How will that effect the current line up of machines?
Im also curious as to why you guys use a transfer pump and water box system on the cds when a unit like the pro1200 gets around it?
I'm currently deciding which of the two units will be in my future so your comments are very much appreciated
doylebloss
Supportive Member
Mike-
HydraMaster is constantly evaluating and lab and field testing engine choices that are available within the industry, including Kohler and Briggs and Stratton. That is an on-going process. However, there are no firm plans to replace Briggs & Stratton engines in our air-cooled slide in truckmount offerings at the present time.
Your question about the water box system is way over the head of my feeble chemical mind. I will refer that to our much smarter engineering types and get you some more knowledgable feedback.
I could just challenge Bill Bruders or Rick Aranda to an arm wrestling contest in Vegas over who gets your PTO business, but upon some reflection, I am pretty sure both could beat me. Maybe we can think of something else that relates to an eating contest.
Regards,
Doyle
HydraMaster is constantly evaluating and lab and field testing engine choices that are available within the industry, including Kohler and Briggs and Stratton. That is an on-going process. However, there are no firm plans to replace Briggs & Stratton engines in our air-cooled slide in truckmount offerings at the present time.
Your question about the water box system is way over the head of my feeble chemical mind. I will refer that to our much smarter engineering types and get you some more knowledgable feedback.
I could just challenge Bill Bruders or Rick Aranda to an arm wrestling contest in Vegas over who gets your PTO business, but upon some reflection, I am pretty sure both could beat me. Maybe we can think of something else that relates to an eating contest.
Regards,
Doyle
Mikey P
Administrator
No reason to risk popped tendons or plugged colons Doyle..
Who ever gives me one, wins!
Who ever gives me one, wins!
hogjowl
Idiot™
I do believe you have given me shit in the past for expecting free stuff.
Have you not?
I will be willing to pay half price for my next rig, Doyle.
Have you not?
I will be willing to pay half price for my next rig, Doyle.
Joe Appleby
Supportive Member
Great question about the water box. I can't tell you how many water box floats I've replaced throughout the years.
Just replaced one this week. Doyle, the hydramaster machine has served me relatively well over the years. It just occurred to me that over the
25 yrs of owning hydramasters, not once has hydramaster asked me what they can do better.
Just replaced one this week. Doyle, the hydramaster machine has served me relatively well over the years. It just occurred to me that over the
25 yrs of owning hydramasters, not once has hydramaster asked me what they can do better.
Mikey P
Administrator
Considering that your opinion here is worthless and potentially quite damaging, I'd suggest to Doyle and Bruders to double the cost for you.
ruff
Member
Doyle,
As someone who's company owned through the years, admittedly less than Joe, however 4 CDS's is not chump change, I'd appreciate being appreciated too.
And if you read my comments here and in the past, I've supported your company both in my reviews and with my hard earned $$. To sum it up_ All in all, I like your machines and bought them in the past.
Improve those and you may keep your competitors running both desperate and scared.
Feeling unappreciated in CA
P.S. the reason I am not talking about the other PTO's is: I don't know anything about them. Never had one, only CDS. That's where others here can contribute to the general knowledge, as this is not a HydraMaster specific thread.
As someone who's company owned through the years, admittedly less than Joe, however 4 CDS's is not chump change, I'd appreciate being appreciated too
.And if you read my comments here and in the past, I've supported your company both in my reviews and with my hard earned $$. To sum it up_ All in all, I like your machines and bought them in the past.
- Why choose an aluminum holding tank that is known to corrode? Your machines are not, by any stretch of the imagination, cheap. Why not use stainless steel, or give the client an option?
- Can last step injection be accomplished? Will it be advantageous?
- Why place the solution metering in the same box right above the electrical connections. Eventually it leaks and corrodes the metal connectors?
- Can a shaft that does not need greasing be used? As it is hard to service and shleps around a lot of grease.
- Is it absolutely necessary to use proprietary parts? It will definitely mean cheaper repairs for us. Or is it more of a financial decision on HydraMaster part?
Improve those and you may keep your competitors running both desperate and scared.
Feeling unappreciated in CA
P.S. the reason I am not talking about the other PTO's is: I don't know anything about them. Never had one, only CDS. That's where others here can contribute to the general knowledge, as this is not a HydraMaster specific thread.
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hogjowl
Idiot™
I am truly hurt.
But I will still be watching this thread closely in hopes of gaining some practical information.
But I will still be watching this thread closely in hopes of gaining some practical information.
doylebloss
Supportive Member
Marty
I have put in a special request on your behalf. At least you are willing to pay more than Mike.
Regards,
Doyle
I have put in a special request on your behalf. At least you are willing to pay more than Mike.
Regards,
Doyle
doylebloss
Supportive Member
Joe and Ofer-</SPAN>
We appreciate your loyalty and your feedback. While we may not have asked *you* the direct question, that doesn’t mean your voice hasn’t been heard (through your distributor, through the Customer Care rep you spoke to, at trade shows, etc.). Rest assured, we do take feedback into our equipment designs (obviously, since we’re changing our float). If you have any other feedback, please feel free to contact me with it, and I will pass it along to the appropriate folks. You may well underestimate how much of your feedback is part of the on-going evaluation of any product we manufacture, as it is a virtually constant communication between our distributors and those at our plant who are part of our Technical Services team and Engineering team. When you communicate your thoughts and ideas to your local distributor, rest assured that information is very likely part of that constant evaluation process. That is one of the reasons why having an international network of distributors is so important, when there are thousands of loyal HydraMaster truckmount owners just like yourselves who do have valuable feedback to provide.</SPAN>
I work primarily on the chemical and marketing side of the company. So working with Kurt Betton, our Senior Engineer, let us address some of your direct questions.</SPAN>
Great question about the water box. I can't tell you how many water box floats I've replaced throughout the years. Just replaced one this week</SPAN></SPAN>
We recently switched to a new style of floats. Please contact Customer Care if you’d like to retrofit your machine. All new machines ship with it. </SPAN></SPAN>
Why choose an aluminum holding tank that is known to corrode? Your machines are not, by any stretch of the imagination, cheap. Why not use stainless steel, or give the client an option?</SPAN></SPAN>
All our machines have been using last step chemical injection since ~ early 2000’s. It avoids passing the corrosive or clogging chemicals through the pressure pump & heat exchanger.</SPAN></SPAN>
Why place the solution metering in the same box right above the electrical connections. Eventually it leaks and corrodes the metal connectors?</SPAN></SPAN>
The current generation of CDS units have the electrical box mounted on the front of the tank, with the solution metering gauge on the side of the tank, mounted in a different panel. The panel with the solution metering gauge has no electronics in it. </SPAN>(</SPAN>http://hydramaster.com/Products/Truckmounts/CDS48OverdrivewSalsa.aspx</SPAN>)</SPAN></SPAN></SPAN>
Can a shaft that does not need greasing be used? As it is hard to service and shleps around a lot of grease.</SPAN></SPAN>
We are looking at options. Due to the movement of the drivetrain, and potential variations during install, we feel a flexible joint is needed, but we are looking at options to improve serviceability of the u-joint (or eliminate it altogether).</SPAN></SPAN>
Is it absolutely necessary to use proprietary parts? It will definitely mean cheaper repairs for us. Or is it more of a financial decision on </SPAN>hydramaster</SPAN></SPAN>
</SPAN>part?</SPAN></SPAN>
In some cases yes, some cases no. We obviously use many parts that are off-the-shelf (e.g. pumps, blowers, fittings, gauges, valves, switches, etc.) There are other cases where either no off-the-shelf parts exist (e.g. clutch bracket), or parts don’t meet our criteria (e.g. tanks) resulting in proprietary designs. We could simplify the machine quite a bit it we used all proprietary parts (for example, imagine machines with no hoses) but we choose to try and balance between price, availability and meeting the criteria, where possible.
</SPAN></SPAN>
We invite your feedback anytime. Feel free to email me at </SPAN>doyle.bloss@hydramaster.com</SPAN> and I will pass the information along to just the right team within our company.</SPAN>
Regards,</SPAN>
Doyle Bloss</SPAN>
Chemical and Brand Manager</SPAN>
HydraMaster</SPAN>
We appreciate your loyalty and your feedback. While we may not have asked *you* the direct question, that doesn’t mean your voice hasn’t been heard (through your distributor, through the Customer Care rep you spoke to, at trade shows, etc.). Rest assured, we do take feedback into our equipment designs (obviously, since we’re changing our float). If you have any other feedback, please feel free to contact me with it, and I will pass it along to the appropriate folks. You may well underestimate how much of your feedback is part of the on-going evaluation of any product we manufacture, as it is a virtually constant communication between our distributors and those at our plant who are part of our Technical Services team and Engineering team. When you communicate your thoughts and ideas to your local distributor, rest assured that information is very likely part of that constant evaluation process. That is one of the reasons why having an international network of distributors is so important, when there are thousands of loyal HydraMaster truckmount owners just like yourselves who do have valuable feedback to provide.</SPAN>
I work primarily on the chemical and marketing side of the company. So working with Kurt Betton, our Senior Engineer, let us address some of your direct questions.</SPAN>
Great question about the water box. I can't tell you how many water box floats I've replaced throughout the years. Just replaced one this week</SPAN></SPAN>
We recently switched to a new style of floats. Please contact Customer Care if you’d like to retrofit your machine. All new machines ship with it. </SPAN></SPAN>
Why choose an aluminum holding tank that is known to corrode? Your machines are not, by any stretch of the imagination, cheap. Why not use stainless steel, or give the client an option?</SPAN></SPAN>
- We offer an optional sacrificial anode for clients experiencing corrosion issues. </SPAN></SPAN>
- We’ve not had many requests for stainless tanks. Please also keep in mind that while stainless is more reslilient to corrosion, it still corrodes under certain conditions. </SPAN></SPAN>
- It has been our experience in the past that when provided with a stainless steel option at an additional cost, very few folks took advantage of it. There are some exceptions to this.</SPAN></SPAN>
All our machines have been using last step chemical injection since ~ early 2000’s. It avoids passing the corrosive or clogging chemicals through the pressure pump & heat exchanger.</SPAN></SPAN>
Why place the solution metering in the same box right above the electrical connections. Eventually it leaks and corrodes the metal connectors?</SPAN></SPAN>
The current generation of CDS units have the electrical box mounted on the front of the tank, with the solution metering gauge on the side of the tank, mounted in a different panel. The panel with the solution metering gauge has no electronics in it. </SPAN>(</SPAN>http://hydramaster.com/Products/Truckmounts/CDS48OverdrivewSalsa.aspx</SPAN>)</SPAN></SPAN></SPAN>
Can a shaft that does not need greasing be used? As it is hard to service and shleps around a lot of grease.</SPAN></SPAN>
We are looking at options. Due to the movement of the drivetrain, and potential variations during install, we feel a flexible joint is needed, but we are looking at options to improve serviceability of the u-joint (or eliminate it altogether).</SPAN></SPAN>
Is it absolutely necessary to use proprietary parts? It will definitely mean cheaper repairs for us. Or is it more of a financial decision on </SPAN>hydramaster</SPAN></SPAN>
In some cases yes, some cases no. We obviously use many parts that are off-the-shelf (e.g. pumps, blowers, fittings, gauges, valves, switches, etc.) There are other cases where either no off-the-shelf parts exist (e.g. clutch bracket), or parts don’t meet our criteria (e.g. tanks) resulting in proprietary designs. We could simplify the machine quite a bit it we used all proprietary parts (for example, imagine machines with no hoses) but we choose to try and balance between price, availability and meeting the criteria, where possible.
</SPAN></SPAN>
We invite your feedback anytime. Feel free to email me at </SPAN>doyle.bloss@hydramaster.com</SPAN> and I will pass the information along to just the right team within our company.</SPAN>
Regards,</SPAN>
Doyle Bloss</SPAN>
Chemical and Brand Manager</SPAN>
HydraMaster</SPAN>
Joe Appleby
Supportive Member
Thank you Doyle. I've emailed you with additional concerns regarding fabrication.
The Great Oz
Member
We've found that our aluminum tanks, if rinsed every day, look like new inside after five years. Our oldest trucks are hitting ten years and 7,500+ hours now with no corrosion or cracking issues, so if a stainless tank was an option I'd have a hard time paying much extra for it.
Since I'm sure Ofer is meticulous about tank hygiene, I wonder if cleaning chemistry might play a part.
Since I'm sure Ofer is meticulous about tank hygiene, I wonder if cleaning chemistry might play a part.
ruff
Member
And thank you Doyle for the straight forward answers, much appreciated.
And I am sure Stevie Ray are paying attention. If only they spoke English
.Be curious to find out if the other PTO company, you know the one- the seemingly mute "British domestic" would care to get involved and educate us?
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Larry Cobb
Member
Doyle;
Good answers for the guys considering PTO's on the board.
Thanks for getting the engineer to comment on the concerns.
Larry
Good answers for the guys considering PTO's on the board.
Thanks for getting the engineer to comment on the concerns.
Larry
idreadnought
Supportive Member
\I am sure you are incorrect about your blowers being off the shelf. They are custom made for hydramaster and cannot be ordered without ordering directly from a hydramaster distributor.
Joe and Ofer-
Is it absolutely necessary to use proprietary parts? It will definitely mean cheaper repairs for us. Or is it more of a financial decision on hydramasterpart?
In some cases yes, some cases no. We obviously use many parts that are off-the-shelf (e.g. pumps, blowers, fittings, gauges, valves, switches, etc.) There are other cases where either no off-the-shelf parts exist (e.g. clutch bracket), or parts don’t meet our criteria (e.g. tanks) resulting in proprietary designs. We could simplify the machine quite a bit it we used all proprietary parts (for example, imagine machines with no hoses) but we choose to try and balance between price, availability and meeting the criteria, where possible.
We invite your feedback anytime. Feel free to email me at doyle.bloss@hydramaster.com and I will pass the information along to just the right team within our company.
Regards,
Doyle Bloss
Chemical and Brand Manager
HydraMaster
Lee Stockwell
FOJL
Had a local competitor with an HM slide-in. His 36 blower went out and we offered a spare we had. However his blower was dual-shaft, with the "driven" shaft driving the pump. He was afraid to change anything, however I'd have worked around it.
The dual-shaft blower is peculiar to HM. It's not impossible to duplicate, just replace the driven lobe's shaft with a a second drive shaft and lobe. Adds to the cost a bit.
The dual-shaft blower is peculiar to HM. It's not impossible to duplicate, just replace the driven lobe's shaft with a a second drive shaft and lobe. Adds to the cost a bit.
