RE in, Wand out..

[Cleanworks]

I just got back from cleaning an optical store that I usually use my portable hwe system and it is always a pita because there is only a 5 gal hot water tank and no way to access with a tm. I decided to use my Powr-Flite multiwash this time and it did an amazing job. I couldn't take pics due to the mgr being there. The multiwash is a little nicer than a Brush Pro because it has a solution tank on it. I presprayed with Procyon Extreme and used Procyon Plus powder in the solution tank. Those cylindrical brushes just keeping digging out the soil. Could have used a Cimex but the Powr-Flite is square and fits into tight corners a little better. I think anyone who used a pile lifter will appreciate cylindrical brushes compared to rotary ones.

 

[Desk Jockey]

Doug Rice was telling me he cleaned using the same solution and a CRB and it did an impressive job.

 

[Cleanworks]

The Mgr was watching me and was blown away by how well it cleaned. Usually, with the portable, it's a big production, lots of noise, lots or power cords, lots of hoses, etc. Here I am with this little machine just tearing the soil out of the carpet, making almost noise and was finished in an hour. They had some bad traffic areas around their counter where the staff sit and we presprayed and then let a little more solution drip on the brushes and a couple of passes and it looks like new. Only problem like all other crb's, after a while it starts spitting wads of lint and soil as the brushes get full. It is supposed to get scraped off in the tank but doesn't work very well. That's why I would like to see a crb with a vacuum. Not to pick up the solution but just to pick up the loose debris that your digging out.

 

[Desk Jockey]

You need a Liberator.

 

[Cleanworks]

You need a Liberator.

It's just that easy

 

[Desk Jockey]

My ass!

We cleaned 15,000 sq/ft with (4) Cimex this evening. Ole R2D2 over there would get run over in the process.

I wanted one for many years but never did buy one. I asked Will if he used them and he did not. I don't know how well they work but its a CRB vacuum.

 

[Old Coastie]

Ron, I have similar experiences with my ol faithful Duplex. If it won't whisk the lumps back up, I make a quick field clean of the collector and perhaps pick up and toss lumps in the collection bin.

That said, it remarkable how deeply these recovery-capable CRBs clean. It is also cool how little wetness remains behind.

Sometimes in residential work I follow up with HWE, simetimes in commercial with a bonnet just to polish off. Bottom line is that the clean really goes deep and there are many ways to skin a cat.

Sure wish I hadn't sold that car, though. I'd be reporting on a Rotovac Ranger and the 360i. Drat.

 

[Nate The Great]

My ass!

We cleaned 15,000 sq/ft with (4) Cimex this evening. Ole R2D2 over there would get run over in the process.

I wanted one for many years but never did buy one. I asked Will if he used them and he did not. I don't know how well they work but its a CRB vacuum.

I heard it's a big POS...and the vacuum wasn't all that great....

 

[Bob Pruitt]

Maybe just bring an extra wet vac, the kind Plumbers use... like 30 dollars at Home Depot, to Vacuum the brushes when they get to the point they are throwing junk around the room. The bucket head vacuum snaps onto a 5 gallon bucket and it's only 20$.

 

[rick imby]

The removal of abrasive material deep down in the fiber is a BIG reason homeowners should have their carpet cleaned regularly.

This is why a RE will help you deliver longer life to your customers carpet.

The carpet may look okay after a wand but did you dig the abrasive stuff out?

That's the stuff that causes carpet to wear more quickly.

It is a Total Fallacy that the dirt in the backing cuts the fibers and shortens the life of the carpet---It is a great visualization tactic to sell your customer but---unless you are in the desert dirt doesn't cut the fibers. And you are not getting the dirt out of the backing even with a Brush head rotary and an Aerotech...

 

[Joel D]

I have the rotovac xl and devastater filter. Just the sight window on the re alone makes it far superior to a wand. A carpet can look completely clean but still be pulling out brown water.

Berbers especially benefit. Its shocking how much crud they hold even after a good vacuuming. Looking at the filter is eye opening compared to wand clean.

I'm embarrassed I didn't get one right away. I'm surprised and a little disappointed in some of the veterans that haven't figured it out.

Also it's a labor and time savings in some jobs

 

[hogjowl]

It is a Total Fallacy that the dirt in the backing cuts the fibers and shortens the life of the carpet---It is a great visualization tactic to sell your customer but---unless you are in the desert dirt doesn't cut the fibers. And you are not getting the dirt out of the backing even with a Brush head rotary and an Aerotech...

Without further evidence to the contrary, I think you might be an idiot.

 

[Mikey P]

Rick when you say "backing" to you mean the bottom of the yarns or the Scalp of the carpet or do you mean once the dirt has sifted its way through the glue and the secondary?


Under the carpet sure, not even worth bringing up.

Scalp? dont be so sure, as long as the carpet was not miss-cleaned in the past, got wet and the deep dry soil turned to Adobe rather than extracted, common on bull noses, a RE with a brush will surprise you.

 

[Bob Pruitt]

-unless you are in the desert dirt doesn't cut the fibers.

Pretty sure that sand is everywhere in the US and since sand...little bits of stone, is harder than nylon...it wins... cutting and damaging these smooth and shiny man made fibers. Still we can only do what is possible when we clean carpets; we make it look better, we don't make it new, no matter who makes your truck mount and whatever tools you bring to the job.

 

[TConway]

Wow this thread has taken OFF !!
This is my take on it.
A wand can clean and in the right hands can turn out a great job MOST of the time. When I enter a job I look at the carpet and make a Professional choice as to how I will proceed.
Many say a RT is slow....if you use it on every job YES, but on jobs where the crap is SO thick then NO it will be faster due to the cleaning ability, yes even faster than CRB then wanding. Not on a cleaner carpet where you can prespray and wand out.
I also put a new Vac bag in on everyjob, after doing my vac I open the bag to see what Im pulling out....Pet Hair, Sand, Super fine silt these things help me find out what is really in the carpet and what needs to be used.
Hair I will prescrub it with my make shift CRB....Im in debt with my wand...A REAL CRB is on my LIST.
A ton of sand or finer Silt I will use my Roto Vac, even after a very good vacuum job, Im sorry to say but you will still get a lot of sand and silt. This stuff gets so compacted down in the base of the carpet that the Roto Tool and its VIBRATION is what is helping get that crap out, I don't think it is because it is spinning, some but it is the vibration and the spinning, plus the vacuum that helps pull the trapped stuff out, this is why I still like my POS DHX RV. I turn it on High and walk it just like a Zipper wand...YES IT SUCKS but the vibration that thing puts out is amazing...Two years ago at ICE, I told Erik man if you could put counter rotating spinners on the Zip it would be BA. The storm that is happening under the new Zip SS has to be awesome.
A wand just doesn't vibrate the carpet, and it pushes the carpet fibers over trapping the solid soils more.
I am a wander in my soul, but as a Pro, I know with out a doubt that a RT WILL get more out it just does.
The Pic I posted...I have Tons of them, but as I have been working on my wand I have pushed it on every job, but there is times that I had to go get the RV, and on Poly carpet it is almost a given that some sort of extra aggi is going to be needed....I have a Love/hate for this carpet....I can get them clean but I have to put in the time to get them that way.
I also think as a cleaner gains more Wisdom the need for a RT becomes less and less, but he should have one on the truck for when it is needed.

 

[Mikey P]

Berbers especially benefit. Its shocking how much crud they hold even after a good vacuuming. Looking at the filter is eye opening compared to wand clean.

I find that to be true as well, the loops act like a roof and keep wands (and red pads) from getting underneath. RE's lift or bend the roof back and allow the hidden soil to be extracted.

 

[hogjowl]

Wow this thread has taken OFF !!
This is my take on it.
A wand can clean and in the right hands can turn out a great job MOST of the time. When I enter a job I look at the carpet and make a Professional choice as to how I will proceed.
Many say a RT is slow....if you use it on every job YES, but on jobs where the crap is SO thick then NO it will be faster due to the cleaning ability, yes even faster than CRB then wanding. Not on a cleaner carpet where you can prespray and wand out.
I also put a new Vac bag in on everyjob, after doing my vac I open the bag to see what Im pulling out....Pet Hair, Sand, Super fine silt these things help me find out what is really in the carpet and what needs to be used.
Hair I will prescrub it with my make shift CRB....Im in debt with my wand...A REAL CRB is on my LIST.
A ton of sand or finer Silt I will use my Roto Vac, even after a very good vacuum job, Im sorry to say but you will still get a lot of sand and silt. This stuff gets so compacted down in the base of the carpet that the Roto Tool and its VIBRATION is what is helping get that crap out, I don't think it is because it is spinning, some but it is the vibration and the spinning, plus the vacuum that helps pull the trapped stuff out, this is why I still like my POS DHX RV. I turn it on High and walk it just like a Zipper wand...YES IT SUCKS but the vibration that thing puts out is amazing...Two years ago at ICE, I told Erik man if you could put counter rotating spinners on the Zip it would be BA. The storm that is happening under the new Zip SS has to be awesome.
A wand just doesn't vibrate the carpet, and it pushes the carpet fibers over trapping the solid soils more.
I am a wander in my soul, but as a Pro, I know with out a doubt that a RT WILL get more out it just does.
The Pic I posted...I have Tons of them, but as I have been working on my wand I have pushed it on every job, but there is times that I had to go get the RV, and on Poly carpet it is almost a given that some sort of extra aggi is going to be needed....I have a Love/hate for this carpet....I can get them clean but I have to put in the time to get them that way.
I also think as a cleaner gains more Wisdom the need for a RT becomes less and less, but he should have one on the truck for when it is needed.

Isn't there a particular persons wand you should be working on?

 

[steve_64]

I find that to be true as well, the loops act like a roof and keep wands (and red pads) from getting underneath. RE's lift or bend the roof back and allow the hidden soil to be extracted.

I disagree.
Turn up the pressure on the wand and go a little slower. It will flush better and leave it drier.

Prespray helps soils coagulate and suspends them. Prescrubbing helps this process.

I suppose there is a place for an re but I dont see it often enough to buy one or keep it on the van.

 

[hogjowl]

I used to say that.

Back whe I was an idiot.

 

[Cleanworks]

Maybe just bring an extra wet vac, the kind Plumbers use... like 30 dollars at Home Depot, to Vacuum the brushes when they get to the point they are throwing junk around the room. The bucket head vacuum snaps onto a 5 gallon bucket and it's only 20$.

I have a little stinger vac from home depot, small wet/dry vac with a straight floor tool. I use it to pick up any debris the machine spits out. It's just not a nice visual as you're cleaning and someone is watching, your machine hawks and spits on the nice clean carpet.

 

[Mikey P]

I disagree.
Turn up the pressure on the wand and go a little slower. It will flush better and leave it drier.

Prespray helps soils coagulate and suspends them. Prescrubbing helps this process.

I suppose there is a place for an re but I dont see it often enough to buy one or keep it on the van.

again, speculation to save money.

It wasn't that long ago that you went from a Bane to a White magic, do you remember that Holy Crap! moment

Do you recall the moment of, "OMG, we've been ripping people off with such a crappy job all those years" feeling in you gut?



Yep, it will happen again.

 

[Mikey P]

I used to say that.

Back whe I was an idiot.

six weeks now?

 

[Bob Pruitt]

It's just not a nice visual as you're cleaning and someone is watching

your machine hawks and spits on the nice clean carpet.

I was thinking since it takes awhile to get to the point where it is spitting out junk...as soon as it does...stop... grab the little shop vac... clean your brush and vac out the container that's holding the junk... then go again. Maybe this is impractical? Just a thought I had...I am no expert on this process.

 

[hogjowl]

six weeks now?

370 now?

 

[Mikey P]

Giggle..


I do believe your TCS unit has a smaller blower..

 

[Cleanworks]

I was thinking since it takes awhile to get to the point where it is spitting out junk...as soon as it does...stop... grab the little shop vac... clean your brush and vac out the container that's holding the junk... then go again. Maybe this is impractical? Just a thought I had...I am no expert on this process.

we do but there places where you can't reach. When back at the shop we run it on its side and flush with a hose.

 

[Cleanworks]

ever since I've been cleaning carpets, (over 30 years now) we would keep a 175 with a shampoo brush on the truck. When we ran into heavily soiled carpets, we haul it out and scrub our prespray in and then wand the carpets. the 175 would scrub the soil loose and the wand would rinse it away. We called it restoration cleaning. The rv with the brushhead does it better as it is scrubbing/flushing/vacuuming all at the same time. Look, we have all done incredible jobs with just the wand. I'm sure we have been in situations when we look at the job and wish we had something more powerful. That's what the rv360/xl with brush head is. SOMETHING MORE POWERFUL.

 

[hogjowl]

47

 

[steve_64]

again, speculation to save money.

It wasn't that long ago that you went from a Bane to a White magic, do you remember that Holy Crap! moment

Do you recall the moment of, "OMG, we've been ripping people off with such a crappy job all those years" feeling in you gut?



Yep, it will happen again.

I still have those moments lol.

But I dont think the rx20 I used did a better job than the wand. In fact there areas the wand got out some stuff the re didnt.

I did like it at first. It was easier to use but I still had to use the wand. Then there is the drying issues ive gotten away from since I got rid of the bane. I dont want to go backward already.

I did a flood job at 9 last night and its dry today already. Man im so glad ive moved past the bane.

 

[Big Jim]

Here is the whole truth. With no disrespect Kent o hose who have come or been doing this before me.

A rotary extractor is not needed but maybe 15-25 percent of the time and this is based on your client demographics of course so it will vary based on yours.

No tool does the final digging like a rotary extractor regardless of what scrubbed the carpet before extraction. Not a spinner tool, not a wand, not a drag wand, nothing like a rotary. The rotary has the contact/agitation and the shear number of cleaning passes. There is no contest when the rotary is actually necessary or SHOULD BE USED.

This statement is dead on and well articulated.