Todd V the Trinity

Shane Deubell

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The lesson learned is don't buy a machine without demoing it first, ( be aware of internet hype ) and Please make sure whatever company you are giving your hard earned money to will be there if a problem arises. It will save you a TON of time and money in the long run.

X2,3,4...

Really have to pay attention to the person giving the "review" and then call people on phone and find out how many hours they put on it.

Drives me crazy to see videos and reviews only to find out the user has ALL of 150 hours on a truckmount with NO problems, lol. Or buys a tool and uses it 4 times but shoots a video for every one...

Now someone like jim martin who takes it super serious would be the exception, even if you don't agree with his conclusion you know he is not playing games.
 

hogjowl

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TM's just about anyone will demo you a unit.

OP big John has been by here at least 6-times with everything from Brutes to the Trinity.

This thread is specifically about NOT doing business with John, and even he won't drive to you at the drop of a hat, across country, to demo a machine. (Well, he may NOW ...)

How many small machine ... low moisture ... mfg's offer free demo's at your place of business?
 

Ken Snow

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Most of the people I see and meet at conventions are owner ops so not sure why you say that Marty. If anything large companies like ours can get in house demos so if anything I would say we need the conventions less, except for the tax deduction of the trip, which applies to OO or larger companies. A Vegas or Florida, or other locale trip to see dozens of vendors can be done fairly inexpensively if desired and can be accomplished with just 1 overnight stay.

Rather than speaking for the "majority" of which you may or my not be right, why do you feel none of the trade shows work for you?
 

Derek

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Whittaker Trio has "free" demo but you pay return shipping. I did it and kept it.

Also jon Don or bridgepoint have a crb that is completely free for 28 days or something.

That's it for free vlm.
 

Desk Jockey

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This thread is specifically about NOT doing business with John, and even he won't drive to you at the drop of a hat, across country, to demo a machine. (Well, he may NOW ...)

How many small machine ... low moisture ... mfg's offer free demo's at your place of business?
Interlink wanted to demo their CRB last year.
 

hogjowl

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The fact that I am having to explain this to you is proof that you are not on the same playing field as the vast majority of practically experienced cleaners. Not that there is anything wrong with the position from which you view this industry.

You can not properly demo a machine at a trade show.

You have to demo one in real working conditions.

The whole point of this discussion, from my standpoint, was to shed light on the impossibility of actually demo'ing anything in this industry before purchasing it.

None of our manufacturers offer a true demo (imagine expecting Sapphire to send you a TM in a van to test for a week, or any OP machine mfg. shipping you a machine to "try"), and the suggestion made above to demo all machines prior to purchase was simply more bulletin board misinformation.

Like using Barbasol shaving cream to remove old paint from carpet ...

Sure, there may be a couple of mfgs that will sent you some small machines, if you are willing to pay for the return shipping, but those few that offer that are often the ones who HAVE to differentiate themselves for lack of real working related reputations amongst us cleaners.

Demoing a machine is not an option for cleaners.
 

G Man

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Whittaker Trio has "free" demo but you pay return shipping. I did it and kept it.

Also jon Don or bridgepoint have a crb that is completely free for 28 days or something.

That's it for free vlm.

Good point Derek, but you are talking about reputable companies. John Geurkink wouldn't even take take Todd's machine back when Todd received it in defective condition. John Geurkink wouldn't even take Todd's defective machine back when Todd shipped it back at his own expense.
Then John claimed he opened the shipment and it was in worse shape because it was packed improperly, but then John told UPS that he refused the package (not opening it) so UPS would take the machine back to Todd without John having to pay return shipping. Lies on top of lies.
So like I said Derek, you have a good point when dealing with reputable companies.

Hogjowl made a bunch of good points also.
 

steve g

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I am very pleased to say that John FINALLY paid me the full judgment amount of $ 4503.15

Even though I am still out over $700 for attorney fees and well over 100 hrs of my time preparing for this case. I am glad that he finally realized he was wrong in the way he handle this dispute.

The lesson learned is don't buy a machine without demoing it first, ( be aware of internet hype ) and Please make sure whatever company you are giving your hard earned money to will be there if a problem arises. It will save you a TON of time and money in the long run. Thanks everyone for listening to my situation, it sure has been a wild ride.


this is great to hear, john g paid his money so lets move on.
 

Desk Jockey

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The fact that I am having to explain this to you is proof that you are not on the same playing field as the vast majority of practically experienced cleaners. Not that there is anything wrong with the position from which you view this industry.

You can not properly demo a machine at a trade show.

You have to demo one in real working conditions.

The whole point of this discussion, from my standpoint, was to shed light on the impossibility of actually demo'ing anything in this industry before purchasing it.

None of our manufacturers offer a true demo (imagine expecting Sapphire to send you a TM in a van to test for a week, or any OP machine mfg. shipping you a machine to "try"), and the suggestion made above to demo all machines prior to purchase was simply more bulletin board misinformation.

Like using Barbasol shaving cream to remove old paint from carpet ...

Sure, there may be a couple of mfgs that will sent you some small machines, if you are willing to pay for the return shipping, but those few that offer that are often the ones who HAVE to differentiate themselves for lack of real working related reputations amongst us cleaners.

Demoing a machine is not an option for cleaners.
For those kind of demo's you'll need a fellow cleaner who is a friend, you ride along for a job or a day and use the unit you're thinking of purchasing.

Obviously it will be more difficult for you........................since you have no friends. :p

[h=2]Definition of FRIEND[/h]1
a : one attached to another by affection or esteem
b : acquaintance

2
a : one that is not hostile
b : one that is of the same nation, party, or group

3
: one that favors or promotes something (as a charity)

4
: a favored companion

5
capitalized : a member of a Christian sect that stresses Inner Light, rejects sacraments and an ordained ministry, and opposes war —called also Quaker
friend·less adjective See Porkchop
 

Ken Snow

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I hear you disagree with me Marty and still feel you are the voice o the industry. I respect your opinion but take it as just that.
 

Shane Deubell

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You guys just dont want to admit marty is right this time...

Can't tell how heavy a machine is until you try dragging it up a flight of stairs at 3pm, cant tell how it works on different grades of carpeting, edges, if it pops circuits... Tons of tiny details, most vendors at a trade will set up a perfect demo.

A larger contractor is never going to know or remember what its like to save money for 1-2 years for a tool that is broke, doesn't work according to plan whatever. It sucks pretty bad.
 
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Derek

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that's where those vid's that some new-user of a piece of equipment takes can help. ANY info on a new piece of equipment & showing what it can handle is better than going by text on a BB :p
 

Ken Snow

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For the record I concede Marty's opinion to a point, though it doesn't seem to me to make a difference whether a company is small or large. What a trade show does imo, besides the tax deductible trip, is let you put a face to a prospective vendor or vendor salesperson, using whatever level of intuition a person has. I have walked away from a lot of booths over the years cause the person didn't pass my sniff test~ whether I was right or wrong, I'll never know

Certainly a demo is not going to show all the things Shane suggested but neither is a demo at your home or shop. Real world usage is on the buyer to decide if they want to take the risk, but after seeing things and using judgement about what to pursue more info on, the bulletin boards can be a great place to get feedback from, as long as it isn't from A) the vendor or B) someone who has made the item the Board flavor of the month.

Expecting a vendor to pay shipping to and/or from and allow someone to use something seems to be something that would have to be baked in to the price and all would be paying more for the item.

I think John G's method of traveling the country is a reasonably sound one~ he even stopped at my place on the Detroit Tiger's Opening day last year and had a few other's join him so he got more bang for the buck as well as fed at our cookout.

Ken
 

Derek

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i agree Ken.

Richard, still honeymoon phase :eek: i wish they had a wider one...maybe 2 in tandem!
 

Zee

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the bulletin boards can be a great place to get feedback from



Until the guy that gives negative or harsh, or true world problems with a machine or chemical...because then a lot of smart boys on here start saying "i wouldn't bring this on a public forum" or " I would just call the company to resolve the problem" etc etc. So which is it: share ALL feedback and opinion about products- on the board, or keep it private between consumer and manufacturer?

It can go both ways I guess but I still would rather hear issues arising from real world users than advising said user to just call the manufacturer privately.

Maybe it will always be a bit more negative as far as feedback goes..but its human nature. The good is more expected and accepted than the bad. Although we can say bad things sometimes can be expected from machines or chemicals but it is still harder to accept them.
 
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Desk Jockey

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Until the guy that gives negative or harsh, or true world problems with a machine or chemical...because then a lot of smart boys on here start saying "i wouldn't bring this on a public forum" or " I would just call the company to resolve the problem" etc etc. So which is it: share ALL feedback and opinion about products- on the board, or keep it private between consumer and manufacturer?

It can go both ways I guess but I still would rather hear issues arising from real world users than advising said user to just call the manufacturer privately.
I've been burned by the board and saved big dollars by the board as well. I've saved far more than I've lost but I'm always cautious unless I know who is making the statement and if the have like opinion on equipment.
 

hogjowl

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[
QUOTE=Ken Snow;4227990]

Expecting a vendor to pay shipping to and/or from and allow someone to use something seems to be something that would have to be baked in to the price and all would be paying more for the item.

Ken[/QUOTE]

I rather like the idea of spreading the costs associated with MY demo to all of you people!
 

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