Vortex vs Trinity

[Mikey P]

John it's real hard to follow what YOU are saying in your last post, please edit is so I/we can tell who is talking.



This "Board" does not have a bias. The cleaners who participate here are primarily cleaners who have all the tools so you'll be hard pressed to convince most here that all you need is one machine that does it all. They may be biased to bullshit sales tactics but the Board as a whole has a very liberal view of any and all methods and as a whole believes a PROFESSIONAL carpet cleaner should have an arsenal of tools and methods available at all times.
Why you are taking this route to pump your new jiggler is beyond me. Almost as stupid a move as not taking care of Todd and his bent handle.


I think you are going senile my friend.

 

[Willy P]

Nothing like a good old fashioned vitriolic John G rant. Should increase sales.......

 

[Mikey P]

Did you really refer to a member here and potential customer as "Tardboy" John?


You do realize that there is a huge audience here that never logs in and yet are watching your every word and are considering buying more equipment?


go see a shrink John.

 

[Zee]

I became a beliver in OP due to all of the hype and wanted to be a beliver real bad. I even reached out and touched the screen of my monitor years ago while reading about it on ICS. I felt a tingle in my leg and trusted that this was my way to grow old as a carpet cleaner. My siatic nerve was really bad from pushing a wand because wand glides hadn't been invented yet. I thought I was really fortuante when I came home and found my trailer truckmount missing from my driveway i night.


I converted many people to the OP spin even though many looked at me as if I had listened to too much Art Bell.


My OP easy life of carpet cleaning ended the day I cleaned this living room with it after I cleaned the upholstery with my next truckmount. I took the uph tool & cleaned under the lip of the couch where my OP machine couldn't reach since the sectional wasn't getting moved. Trying to match that with the OP was impossible so I had to tow HWE the entire room. It was that day I went back to HWE & never looked back again.


Now that I'm an old bass-turd I wish I didn't find out about OP until now. I could have been duped today & had about a 3-4 year run with OP till I figured it all out.


The one thing I had a lot of trouble accepting was John's explaining that the pads will never come up clean because you could pad all day untill you wore the carpet right off. Same thing with HWE, you'll always get black water. Yeah, I fell for that. One hot humid no dry day I ran the OP over the HWE'd carpet and realized it was a load of taliban crap.


I've done the test by OJT



Mikey P

And now you know the rest of the story...​

.

Here we have an OP'r gong the other way, MAN this crowd believes him, backs him, agrees with him.
Now we have a V guy going LM and he is a hack, lousey cleaner, doesn't know what he is doing..ETC.
Funny thing is the V guy tested and tested, here we have a few guys SAYing WHAT THEY saw....
Tell me this isn't a HWE haven of bias... ROFLMAO

]Then I got my At...
To further convince my self I would hwe a place then being op in and go over it...
Both ways, would op while still damp And wait till fully dry and re clean.
Not ONCE did I get soil transfer.

Funny CleanTech, but anyone who believes that is STUPID, and NO, I don't believe a word of it.

Dont know why John G did not perform this test years ago? The Dumbass has owned a TM for years. Dry times with HWE and OP are about the same. Would have loved to see the Tirinity today on a California Berber I cleaned with HWE. The Trinity would have Tip Bloomed the fook out of it. I use both methods. But OP machines are very hard on carpets and tip bloom the majority of Friezes you will clean. Go over to Paddy Land and check out the Zombies over there. They do water damge with OP maCHINES and large amounts of Blood Removal. Always fresh blood over in paddy land usually cuz the guys who hang out over there are out of business in less then a year. OP machines are way to agressive for residential.
Golden Boy

Now this is a great example of a true MB hero..
Hey TardBoy, the Trinity absolutely does not tb ANY carpets, Even Shaw was amazed when they had us clean their Caress carpet twice. No, it won't TB a california berber either. SO again TARDBOY speaks and shows his wealth of knowledge of what he is talking about.
Oh BTW, a couple of guys cleaned up condensation leaks with pads, another guy cleaned up blood spots, but notice HOW TardBoy likes to phrase, another mind numbed cleaner, who likes to make noise and sound important but forgot one little detail...... HE didn't have a clue what he was talking about.

another FACT....
as Todd's pic clearly illustrates , all you have to do is run a wand pass over any freshly OP'd or encRapped carpet to see the difference.
Cause on anything but light/moderate light soiled goods the difference will be clear


If John had a "real" TM (and knew how to use it) , he'd KNOW that too
..L.T.A.

Another FACT? Not so quick Cappy, the one guy who has a huge grudge for his own stupidity posts a pic and YOU buy it hook line and sinker because it fits what you want it to be. WOW...

Now let's rate real tms, fake tms, real cleaners, fake cleaners, if a guy bashes OP, you guys are on board, if a V guy goes VLM HE is a hack, "you could have done better" etc. etc. You have a made up excuse for everything and are willing to slam OP, which BTW The trinity is not at all like any other OP, if it was I wouldn't have spent 30k on patents.
The bias is as easy to see here as it is on MSNBC...

If you really put 30large in patents, that may have been a waste of money after how you represent your company and your product ..... Like Mikey mentioned it too, there is prolly a ton of lurkers that never say anything but make their buying decisions based on conversations read here. So for you to go on these mindless rants and resort to name calling is a pretty bad move. Could only be compared to one of us going on yelp and name call and bitch out our customers and potential future customers.

I, for one- would not even consider buying your unit..and I do a pretty substantial amount of op cleaning..

Op works. But it can not replace a good tm with a good, caring tech on the wand. Op works as part of our weapons of mess destruction...but definitely not going to replace a tm.

 

[ruff]

Considering John, the crew and this gift of a thread that keeps on giving.
The following pretty much sums it up:

 

[tngvegas]

One machine to rule (do everything) them all. Just like the movie " L of the Rings" He and his followers preach about how much a tm costs and how hard it is to pull hose. and in snow and cold that is something to talk about. but not the rest of the year. A tm makes alot of money and for most guys here pays for more than itself.

For residential cleaning a careful hwe cleaner can do an awesome job and carpet dries fast. add agitation if you want so with hwe there are more than one choice of doing things. and don't forget that a carpet that has lots fo residue from cheap cleaners before can very easily be flushed out with lots of hot water. then extra dry strokes can be made. And great results and happy customers. how much water lift does a nicro fiber pad have....especially at the speed that you see some guys push the trinity on youtuve videos?

Did that Todd guy doctor the photo that he put up hweing after op with trinity? where's the proof john g. if you have none then your just assuming because you don't want that picture to be right. You should just accept that there are guys on this board that can clean very very good with a tm. and they don't have to expect an encap product to finish their work for them.

And they are not brainwashed into thinking that they know everything like you do. they are way more openminded than you are. And they know that you have to spend money to have the tools so they jobs will be done right. not splash and dash or soak and run. You seem to think that you are god's gift to the carpet cleaning world. but your not. and assuming Todd is always wrong and you are always right just proves that you cannot aceept the truth. I'm sure the trinity works great, i would use it for commercial jobs....but you made a bad public relations desision when you chose to treat Todd the way you did.

 

[Zee]

Here is a great Vortex picture!!! You have to have some imagination to work this thing though...
















View attachment 2094

 

[Gmackay]

John I love you man but you are a distributor now and held to a new standard & scrutiny. Take it all in, deal with it, modify and adapt.

Please dont box me as a a ladder that went the other way. You know very well I personally started with HWE and tried every method there is. Still use every single one of them, yes, even a few VS machines.

You embarrass all of us old glue horses. You're a mfr of OP machines of which I ain't no hater of but everyone of these professionals have given you their professional input and you fight it???

A customer who is legally blind at 93 and tells me that area of carpet is still dirty, guess what I do? No fuss, no faces, no neg body language, I fix it regardless.

Why should you not be held accountable by the people you pimp too?

That was a bold and butt stoopid claim you made and you're being held accountable so deal with it as a Pro I know you are. If you truly had the experience in all of the methods then your claims may have been taken with a grain of salt.

Like I said dude, I love you man but you have made some crazy claims in the past. I went into the OP realm because I believed the hype and really wanted an easier way to do what I do but as much as I wanted to believe it was not the clean way or the safe way to clean carpet. There should be hearings being held on me for Tip Blooming carpet and doings by customers & clients wrong.

I use OP only for follow up to commercial HWE jobs. That's all I now consider it good for, thats my opinion and any others dont matter to me.

Defining clean baby, thats what its a about. Try another sales approach and get some young lady to sell it, you're too damn grumpy to sell.

 

[Dolly Llama]

Another FACT? Not so quick Cappy, the one guy who has a huge grudge for his own stupidity posts a pic and YOU buy it hook line and sinker because it fits what you want it to be. WOW...

no John, I didn't take his word for it.
it doesn't "fit what i want to be" , It's fits what I know and see.
I'm a multi-method cleaner and have REAL WORLD experience with TM, porty, OP, CRB, rotary bonnet and full blown scrub 'n run.
I actually "know" what i know because I've actually do it

if a guy bashes OP, you guys are on board,

no one is "bashing" OP or OP cleaners ...many of us use OP, many of us know it's a very good tool in many situations.
What they're bashing is silly claims that a spray 'n wipe cleaning will remove more contaminates than TM

if a V guy goes VLM HE is a hack, "you could have done better" etc. etc. You have a made up excuse for everything and are willing to slam OP, which BTW The trinity is not at all like any other OP,

John, but I've heard that line before from you
it started with the blue 1/2HP shake 'n shine machine
Then the 3/4 hp red Conquer
Then the Brute
Now the Trinity
everyone of them was better than all the rest of the comp , ..and all of then out cleaned TM according to you.
Forgive me John if I see this as just "more of the same" from a one trick pony

and again, no one is saying OP doesn't have it's place or some real virtues

The bias is as easy to see here as it is on MSNBC...

the bias is clear indeed
But it's not coming from the veterans that use multi methods




BTW, Mike, he called Wal'Doh a tard , not someone else



..L.T.A.

 

[juniorc82]

I think john is more clever than we have givin him credit for. Either through ignorance , or deception this guy has managed to hold this whole board hostage and make it all about him being the victim. I find it remarkable that this has captured the attention of such experienced cleaners by making a claim so bogus and sticking to his guns.

 

[Mikey P]

Questions for John


When do you use cotton OP pads? (if you still clean accounts)
Do you use a Glider with the Trinity?
What sort of velcro or pad driver is used on the Trinity?
How much is a single Glad Pad?
How many cotton pads would it take to clean 200 sq ft of greasy restaurant gluedown?


Thanks!!

 

[Goomer]

[video=youtube;Ioe4Ykqrb2g]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ioe4Ykqrb2g&feature=youtu.be[/video]

Cleaning a carpet here in Winchester, Ky.
With the Trinity CM we cleaned 3000 square feet of CGD in 24 minutes.
At 15 cents that is $1125.00 an hour.
42 Oz of Clean N Vac PadCapPro
28 Oz Clean N Vac Blaze
1 side of a 17" Microfiber with scrub strips pad.
7 gallons total RTU cleaning product.
Less than $25.00 spent in cleaning product and pad usage.
The video may be BORING, however, it just shows what the Trinity
CM can do for you.

I am not really sure why I am even bothering with this......but what the hell.......

Just so I (WE) understand the philosophy you are trying to "sell us", is you honestly believe that under the conditions posted above, you removed more soil over 3000 square feet using ONE SIDE of a moderately absorbent microfiber pad, than would be possible utilizing a truckmounted HWE system???

Please say it ain't so!!!!!

 

[Mikey P]

I look forward to the answer to Frank's question

 

[bob vawter]

So G....all these years of feuding wit you.....
and it's ME that turns out to be the "good guy"....LMFAO!

 

[Goldenboy]

Do you think John cares about clean carpets? Just look at the guy. He is just a Big Slob. He doesnt even use water to take a shower. Patti just rolls him around in saw dust.

Golden Boy

 

[Desk Jockey]

LOL

He was slim last time he passed through town and yes I think he really cares about clean carpets.

I think the disconnect is he has this "redheaded step child syndrome" he feels OP or actually more lately the Trinity gets no respect and is up for a battle with each post. But it's as Mike stated, those are days gone by, most cleaners here offer a variety of methods from Dry Foam Fun (Mardie) to HWE and everything in between. It appears John misses the us (low moisture) vs HWE days but for the most part those days are gone.

Well at least until this ATP testing pseudoscience with $1,000.00 meters? Good meters for the right reason but testing carpet cleaning? You'll get different readings in the same room inches apart, from the surface to the base your readings can be different.

I just can't see the value in testing in an uncontrolled environment.

 

[Mikey P]

Questions for John


When do you use cotton OP pads? (if you still clean accounts)
Do you use a Glider with the Trinity?
What sort of velcro or pad driver is used on the Trinity?
How much is a single Glad Pad?
How many cotton pads would it take to clean 200 sq ft of greasy restaurant gluedown?


Thanks!!

still waiting

 

[John G]

still waiting

I held off because the questions have little or nothing to do with cleaning with the trinity.
Anyway, you want it, you got it.

When do you use cotton OP pads? (if you still clean accounts)
i don't.
Do you use a Glider with the Trinity?
Never.
What sort of velcro or pad driver is used on the Trinity?
No velco, short trim bonnet brush.
How much is a single Glad Pad?
We don't sell them.
How many cotton pads would it take to clean 200 sq ft of greasy restaurant gluedown?
0

 

[John G]

Personally Gary, I don't care what method you use, your problems with VLM seem to be YOUR problem.
I have no problem with it not being for everyone, but seldom do I hear about a guy who did so poorly with it, Ken Raddon had the same issues.
Maybe you two are destined to HWE, and that is cool with me.

 

[Mikey P]

Interesting.

Please subscribe how you deal with urine jobs.
Not one little spritz but the malicious Yorkie who chronically wizzes each and every time she had to go pee pee.

We all deal with those jobs on a regular basis after all

 

[bob vawter]

yes John that wuzME who put up the tar and feather picture........any response?
jus look at yorsef.......how silly!

you REALLY should be ashamed in so many ways..................

 

[David VB]

For years John has been saying that with whatever machine and pad he was currently selling, tip blooming was not a problem. But then whenever he comes out with a new pad or machine he always emphasizes in his sales that it puts an end to tip blooming. It used to be that Tuway's were a joke, now they are recommended? Using synthetic pads usually eliminates tip blooming concerns on any machine.

I do believe that the wiping action of an absorbent pad will clean some soil better than water flow. But for overall cleaning, especially when you factor in urine, stairs and soil filtration lines, its hard to get away from a truck mount. I'm another one who tried but could never rely on VLM only on residential.

Threads like these hopefully help younger guys to be careful what they believe.

 

[John G]

For years John has been saying that with whatever machine and pad he was currently selling, tip blooming was not a problem. But then whenever he comes out with a new pad or machine he always emphasizes in his sales that it puts an end to tip blooming. It used to be that Tuway's were a joke, now they are recommended? Using synthetic pads usually eliminates tip blooming concerns on any machine.
Actually Dave, tipblooming has never been an issue for most cleaners, however, they needed to pay attention to what they were doing, plus the ONLY TIME I have stated tipblooming has been totally eliminated is with the Trinity.

Look sharing with OP does and caring what method people use is totally different, I don't care what method people use, just master what you do.
My point was and IS, when OP doesn't work for someone, everyone wants to jump on the bandwagon, when it does work for someone and they go for HWE to
OP, then they are a hack. This thread proves that quite well.

 

[Mikey P]

You got it all wrong John.


When a cleaner decides to be a one method/tool cleaner they become or start off as a hack.


Especially if that method does not remove/extract any sand, urine, grease. vomit, blood, feces, coffee and just about anything else that gets on a residential carpet, but rather grinds or shakes it to the bottom of the pile and uses chemicals to mask the odor


which is exactly what you are doing with just a non absorbent Tuway bad..

 

[bob vawter]

Mikey....you forgot about the snot.... boogers and any other body fluids!

 

[Desk Jockey]

Mikey....you forgot about the snot.... boogers and any other body fluids!

Oh yea, what about bawbs place.

 

[David VB]

Whenever someone has a problem with OP its always because THEY didn't "master the method." When I experienced tip blooming I decided I should have done more investigation. When Paul Lucas explained that an OP machine has hundreds of small orbits spinning away on the tufts versus a rotary having only one large orbit, it made sense to me why an OP is far more likely to untwist a carpet. A rotary takes a little more time and technique to clean all sides of a fiber than an OP but is a lot safer. Plus a rotary is a lot cheaper than OP machines, they are professionally manufactured and don't shake and rattle.

I'm glad I always had a truckmount so I didn't have worry about mastering OP.

 

[Jimmy L]

If you think you CAN'T master the OP machine don't even try using a CRB !

 

[Mikey P]

Whenever someone has a problem with OP its always because THEY didn't "master the method." When I experienced tip blooming I decided I should have done more investigation. When Paul Lucas explained that an OP machine has hundreds of small orbits spinning away on the tufts versus a rotary having only one large orbit, it made sense to me why an OP is far more likely to untwist a carpet. A rotary takes a little more time and technique to clean all sides of a fiber than an OP but is a lot safer. Plus a rotary is a lot cheaper than OP machines, they are professionally manufactured and don't shake and rattle.

I'm glad I always had a truckmount so I didn't have worry about mastering OP.

well said David.

 

[Mikey P]

Am I anti OP?

No.


OP IMO is A+ for CGD.