Vortex vs Trinity

John G · May 7, 2013

Come on guys, TEST it for yourselves.
I am happy more are getting testers, THEY at least have more than opinion to offer.
No one asks you to believe anything, but try testing yourselves before saying things like "trying to keep things honest", you
can't keep things any way if you don't do your own testing.

Micheal, first off HE refused to claim the damage, plain and simple, secondly a Cm is not a buffer...

Desk Jockey · May 7, 2013

Why would an average cleaner waste money on a meter? What real value is there in “Carpet Cleaners” testing?

For those or any reading to have valid meaning you’re going to need professionals to test in a controlled environment. Not a bunch of carpet cleaning making claims about “mine says this” and “mine says that”.

If Mike were to tell you he ATP tested the carpet after he cleaned with his Vortex and his reading contradict what your readings are, where are you then?

You need independent testing by professionals, leave the carpet cleaners to carpet cleaning.

Good for you that the Trinity is doing so well, but this method fighting is pointless.

We are all carpet cleaners that use the tools available to us. You don't see other trades polarized about which wrenches or which hammers they use.

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Mikey P · May 7, 2013

And what is this test suppose to show exactly?

John G · May 7, 2013

Why would an average cleaner waste money on a meter? What real value is there in “Carpet Cleaners” testing?

For those or any reading to have valid meaning you’re going to need professionals to test in a controlled environment. Not a bunch of carpet cleaning making claims about “mine says this” and “mine says that”.

If Mike were to tell you he ATP tested the carpet after he cleaned with his Vortex and his reading contradict what your readings are, where are you then?

You need independent testing by professionals, leave the carpet cleaners to carpet cleaning.

Good for you that the Trinity is doing so well, but this method fighting is pointless.

We are all carpet cleaners that use the tools available to us. You don't see other trades polarized about which wrenches or which hammers they use.

That had to be the whiniest post I ever saw you type Richard, this isn't about polarizing, this is about getting to the facts. You seem AFRAID of facts, good grief there are a lot more people than me testing, they are getting the SAME results, so your hypothetical is bogus. Have you been cleaning so long you are a afraid of truth? You have a meter, SO TEST and quit complaining.

juniorc82 · May 7, 2013

John G said:
Why would an average cleaner waste money on a meter? What real value is there in “Carpet Cleaners” testing?

For those or any reading to have valid meaning you’re going to need professionals to test in a controlled environment. Not a bunch of carpet cleaning making claims about “mine says this” and “mine says that”.

If Mike were to tell you he ATP tested the carpet after he cleaned with his Vortex and his reading contradict what your readings are, where are you then?

You need independent testing by professionals, leave the carpet cleaners to carpet cleaning.

Good for you that the Trinity is doing so well, but this method fighting is pointless.

We are all carpet cleaners that use the tools available to us. You don't see other trades polarized about which wrenches or which hammers they use.

That had to be the whiniest post I ever saw you type Richard, this isn't about polarizing, this is about getting to the facts. You seem AFRAID of facts, good grief there are a lot more people than me testing, they are getting the SAME results, so your hypothetical is bogus. Have you been cleaning so long you are a afraid of truth? You have a meter, SO TEST and quit complaining.

John your killin me here dude. Very few of us are polarized about what tools we use. But to make such a ludacris claim that the trinity can beat a truckmount on soil removal is almost an irresponsible thing to say as a supplier. I recently cleaned a vacant apartment with an rx20 and a truckmount and got a lump of dirt and hair the size of a football out of my inline filter after we got done. I can guarantee that the trinity would never come close to that. Now on the other hand , as I cimex owner I am convinced that encap has its place in the food chain and would recomend that any serious carpet cleaner should have at least one device in their arsenal dedicated to low moisture. You cant claim that we are all polarized because we called bull shyt on one of your claims

Derek · May 7, 2013

juniorc82 said:
I recently cleaned a vacant apartment with an rx20 and a truckmount and got a lump of dirt and hair the size of a football out of my inline filter after we got done.

Jon, i'm guessing you didn't prevac right?

be honest :icon_razz:

juniorc82 · May 7, 2013

Derek said:
Jon, i'm guessing you didn't prevac right?

be honest

no sure didnt, but the maintenance man did before I came It appeared to be vac'd. It was a berber and there was no loose debre on it. Somthing about the rotary digs up a bunch of crud

Dmreed4311 · May 7, 2013

After watching the videos on that vortex vs trinity website I was amazed!!! amazed at how poorly it was cleaning, especially on the second video, it looked like mud slinging to me. At the end of ther second video he said "simply amazing" Her is easily impressed because I was not. All I saw was streaked up carpet.

Mikey P · May 7, 2013

is that what this is about? Some fool who thinks his bonnet machine is removing more soil that a truckmount?

John I seriously think you will be going to hell if you use this line of bullshit for profit.

Ron Werner · May 7, 2013

The main reason why OP "out cleans" HWE ... on certain carpets in certain situations...is that it DOESN'T disturb the deeper soil in a carpet that causes wicking and other issues when it gets wet from HWE. The carpet looks clean with no after effects. It doesn't remove that soil, it just doesn't disturb it. HWE by itself won't remove it either, but it might flush some of it.
With some soiling I can see the pad giving the added agitation needed to remove certain spots, but then it could just be the chemistry as well.

Willy P · May 8, 2013

John you friggin' hard headed hillbilly. Don't you see the damage you're doing to your brand? Yeah, it sucks having to go through accepting the machine back and refunding the money, even if you feel you're right.You just seem to want to stick your feet in and you're doing yourself way more harm than good by being stubborn. Everyone takes one for the team and smiles with the bile rising, but you do it for the good of your business. Maybe the best thing all around is get the machine back and move on. I'm saying this as a friend, not a judge.

bob vawter · May 8, 2013

John you friggin' hard headed hillbilly....#2

Desk Jockey · May 8, 2013

That had to be the whiniest post I ever saw you type Richard, this isn't about polarizing, this is about getting to the facts. You seem AFRAID of facts, good grief there are a lot more people than me testing, they are getting the SAME results, so your hypothetical is bogus. Have you been cleaning so long you are a afraid of truth? You have a meter, SO TEST and quit complaining.

Oh I see how it works, when a difficult question is asked of you, you resort to name calling. Very mature of you John.

Afraid? John we are only talking about carpet cleaning, what do have to fear from carpet cleaning?

Again why would I waste test swabs, what is the point of me testing? There is far too much of a conflict of interest for me to do testing. Plus I have no trinity to compare it to?

John no one will ever take your results seriously until you use the independent testing.

John G · May 8, 2013

Maybe the HWE guys are just to CHEAP to test for themselves, because I hear all these opinions and yet not ONE of you have tested for yourselves.
Maybe you don't dare....lol

Desk Jockey · May 8, 2013

I think you just like to argue. :icon_rolleyes:

HWE guys? I consider us carpet cleaners, not tied to a particular method, I own as many low moisture machines as TM's.

We have 8,000sq/ft to clean Saturday morning the customer specifically asked for HWE, we explained the benefits of low moisture for their facility and he liked what he heard and now what was once a HWE job is now a low moisture one. Yet I'm a HWE guy?

John you have to get past this method nonsense, focus on something positive. This negative approach will eventually eat you up.

We are carpet cleaners to the general public. Not HWE, not Low Moisture but carpet cleaners.

Steamin McFadden · May 8, 2013

TO adress the point of this thread, let me state my "Opinion" as I have OP cleaned several hundert jobs, (maybe thousands with OP,) and just about that many with HWE.

Here is what I find to be true. OP cleaning can make a carpet look as good or better than HWE, but NO , the carpet will be cleaner with HWE.

Case in point, watch this video, ask your self how many pads you would have used on these two rooms and hall. I would estimate I would have used 20- 25 glad pads with OP. Let me tell you for a FACT , after I HWE ed this job I got more dirt (mud) and sand and general crap collected in the bottom of my in line filter then 25 glad pads can hold.

I'm talking about JUST at the bottom of my filter. This was after a good pre vac and light bonnet cleaning/scrubbing.

Now if your using micro, or synthetic pads your not even coming close to removing as much soil as glad pads, or coton. How many OP guys are even using glads or cotton any more? AN don't tell me that the 20 pounds of left over dirt is being encaped, and vaced out later, I know better ,

here's the job I referenced... Like I said I had pounds of sludge just at the bottom of my pre filter, not to mention pounds of crap in the cloth filter bag, that alone is more than 20 pads could hold, (now we still got about 65 gallons of tar water in the waist tank on top of that. No "Testing" can convince me different then my real world experence using both methods.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BNnimr0jy1Q

Desk Jockey · May 8, 2013

Yes but you're a HWE guy. I remember when you were Padding McFadden, trader!

Andy have you gone to strictly steam or do you use low moisture still?

Impressive Andy, you do great work!!! :icon_cool:

John G · May 8, 2013

You know the same thing happened with I came on the boards 20 years ago, everyone trashed OP, said it couldn't do this, it couldn't do that, yet
today look at how many use OP as their primary cleaning method.

There too, people talked, gave their opinions yet didn't test for themselves.

Some things stay the same...LOL
Some simply believe what they WANT too.

For those who do it daily they could care less about cleaners that suppose instead of know.

Mikey P · May 8, 2013

John will you please answer my questions about this testing..

What is the device?
what is it out to prove?
What is it saying that VLM does better than HWE?

Desk Jockey · May 8, 2013

I think you're fighting a pointless battle John.

I'm done.

Have a good day, I wish you well. Honestly! :icon_cool:

Mikey P · May 8, 2013

Andy, THAT job was made to be Rotary Extracted.

A clear tube would have been so revealing.

I'm sure a VLM method could have loaded it up with Pixie Peroxide and left it flowery fresh (and with 99% of the gunk still there) but it's so unethical and disgusting you really have to wonder about a person's bathing habits and morals who would do such a thing.

I hope you got good airflow down in that dungeon to dry that bacteria farm out.

Steamin McFadden · May 8, 2013

Doc Holliday said:
Yes but you're a HWE guy. I remember when you were Padding McFadden, trader!

Andy have you gone to strictly steam or do you use low moisture still?

Impressive Andy, you do great work!!!

Doc,
I only pad commercial work or high rise acounts, everything else Is 100% HWE, thus the name change to "steamin McFadden" after 4 years of padding, I had to unlearn a lot of stuff and start from scratch again. My referals and repeats trippled after switching methods

Mikey, I was inspired to drop money on a 360i after I did that job, so that's the way I roll now when I get a drity one .

tmiklethun · May 8, 2013

Man there is a lot of attitude flying around in this post and from several different people to boot. Just for the record I primarily clean HWE. I do encap with my rotary on commercial carpet and have used a bonnet on residential with my rotary as well on real light soil. I am considering picking up a Trinity and have talked to both John and his wife on the phone about the machine. I like what I hear from except one part, which I will talk about in a second. My biggest concern is that carpet manufactures are recommending against any type of Rotary Machine and even though orbital is different, the manufactures don't seem on board with it yet. Then again they are recommending CRB which are great for prescrubbing, but I don't think they work at all for encapping. So do I buy a machine carpet manufactures approve of, but don't work very well? Or do I buy a machine that works better, but possibly will void warranties?

John, if I can be so bold and tell you how you could of better sold me on your machine. I told you I wanted to use it for commercial cleaning and interim carpet cleaning, between HWE cleaning with protector, on residential. I was also going to use to prescrub heavily soiled carpet and grout before HWE. That was my vision of your machine. You tried to talk me into believing that I could just look at it as a full replacement to HWE. Now that may be true and it would be cool if it was, but I think a better approach would be to sell me the machine based on how I want to use it. Then when I get it and start using it I may see that its even more versatile then I thought. I think you tend to try to oversell a little and it would be great if you could get the carpet manufactures to "approve" your machine and it larger orbital pattern. That would help put my mind at ease.

I am new to this board, but on other boards I check out, even the political ones, the moderator or administrators job seems to be keeping the conversational professional and without personal insults. I gotta say I was kind of surprised and a little disappointed to see "Mikey" the admin throwing out insults.

Desk Jockey · May 8, 2013

"Mikey" the admin throwing out insults.

You're kidding right? That's the true value of MB, you can say what you truly feel.

Mikey? What about John behaving like a real jackass. Far from professional, even though he has the most to lose as a manufacturers of a product. :errf:

tmiklethun · May 8, 2013

Doc Holliday said:
You're kidding right? That's the true value of MB, you can say what you truly feel.

Mikey? What about John behaving like a real jackass. Far from professional, even though he has the most to lose as a manufacturers of a product.

Doc,

That may be true, I guess I am just not used to it. Yes I think John was behaving poorly also, I only mentioned Mikey because he is an admin. Just my opinon.

FredC · May 8, 2013

Desk Jockey · May 8, 2013

tmiklethun said:
Doc,

That may be true, I guess I am just not used to it. Yes I think John was behaving poorly also, I only mentioned Mikey because he is an admin. Just my opinion.

I'm glad you voiced your opinion regardless of how I personally feel. The other thing is Mike and John have know each other for a long long time, I don't think either would attack a new poster......well there again....maybe.

Mikey P · May 8, 2013

yep, John and I have been busting each other's balls since 2001.

Dolly Llama · May 8, 2013

John G said:
Some things stay the same...LOL
Some simply believe what they WANT too.

stop playing dumb, John
Several on this thread, including me , have WAY more experience with OP than you have with HWE.

Some of us have been around awhile, John.
At one time, you were all about cotton pads as the only way to actually remove soil, as you dogged Rick and the other scrub 'n run encRappers
Now you run synthetic pads a country mile and call that "the best" :icon_rolleyes:

stop the charade cause there are too many of us that use multi methods and know the score .
sell your machines on their virtues (and OP has plenty) not by making utterly foolish claims, which by doing so makes you one of two things;
1. ignorant and inexperienced of different methods
2. a sleazy salesman that will tell any lie to line their pockets

For those who do it daily they could care less about cleaners that suppose instead of know.

the ones that are candid and HONEST about it will tell you their niche is com and/or they parked the TM in the interest of higher profits
NOT because it "cleans" better (if "clean" is defined as the "absence of soil")

there's just too many seasoned multi method veterans for your one machine method baloney to fly here

..L.T.A.

dealtimeman · May 8, 2013

Where does the dirt go?

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