Bob Foster
Member
- Joined
- Oct 8, 2006
- Messages
- 8,870
Search Ace All Cleaning Equipment
http://www.connectionsconvention.org/fl ... start.html
http://www.connectionsconvention.org/fl ... start.html
MicahR
Member
This is one of the examples I give to guys looking for machines. They always want to go a different route than a company that has built a good reputation. Trying to save a little bit of money. Save money up front pay it back ten fold later.
Sure everyone has a story to tell about the different companies out there, but the fact remains if you go with one of the well known companies and have to spend a little bit more dough it's well worth it.
My response to this whole issue:
GET OUT OF MY INDUSTRY!
You give guys like me who want to help the customer make as much money as possible. It's a symbiotic relationship. The more successful you are the more successful I'll be.
Having a machine go out the door that I know will be backed by good customer service on my vendors end is priceless! My name is figuratively stamped on that machine right under the manufacturers name.
Sure everyone has a story to tell about the different companies out there, but the fact remains if you go with one of the well known companies and have to spend a little bit more dough it's well worth it.
My response to this whole issue:
GET OUT OF MY INDUSTRY!
You give guys like me who want to help the customer make as much money as possible. It's a symbiotic relationship. The more successful you are the more successful I'll be.
Having a machine go out the door that I know will be backed by good customer service on my vendors end is priceless! My name is figuratively stamped on that machine right under the manufacturers name.
AdamHale said:
Adam, you are killing me!
I hope John gets his money back, actually I'm pretty sure he'll get it back one way or another, but I just wanted to point out what the Internet has done for our industry, Mfgs. and Suppliers and even cleaners can be held accountable, it's no longer a fragmented cellular world. I truly believe we are in a new era, the next decade is bright indeed.
Micah, I'm with you, GET THE DIRTBAGS OUT, It'll be nice to get some respect back in the industry.
White-Magic rebuilder
Member
- Joined
- Nov 10, 2006
- Messages
- 434
AdamHale said:
UUmmmmm.....sounds like WhiteMagic and Ace have the same thing in common!!!!
steve g
Member
any once else think that ACE's lack of response speaks volumes,??? I once made a comment about their machines sucking and all the negative response I heard about them on the red board a couple years ago, I got a phone call from the ACE guy himself telling me how great the machines are and how they would love for me to buy one, so I am sure they know full well about this thread
V
vegijohn
Guest
I hope he is busy closing up shop. I really don't think I will ever see my money. I may have lost $23K but how much is he going to lose by not being honest.
Lets face it--- I made a very STUPID mistake in trusting him.
I forgot these rules:
"The one with the money has the power and makes the rules."
"A fool and his money are quickly departed"
"Nice guys have skinny kids"
ACE and Al forgot these rules:
"In business your reputation is everything"
"We, as consumers have the Internet to fight back"
"As long as I state facts I'm protected by the 1st Amendment.
I wish I had joined MikeysBoard sooner because I think you guys would have kept me from making this mistake. Back in April I was only on Cleanfax and ICS BB's and those boards are like ghost towns----Mikeysboard IS the place to be.
This set back may be a bummer but considering I was once a homeless child---LIFE IS GOOD.
Thanks for all your support
Lets face it--- I made a very STUPID mistake in trusting him.
I forgot these rules:
"The one with the money has the power and makes the rules."
"A fool and his money are quickly departed"
"Nice guys have skinny kids"
ACE and Al forgot these rules:
"In business your reputation is everything"
"We, as consumers have the Internet to fight back"
"As long as I state facts I'm protected by the 1st Amendment.
I wish I had joined MikeysBoard sooner because I think you guys would have kept me from making this mistake. Back in April I was only on Cleanfax and ICS BB's and those boards are like ghost towns----Mikeysboard IS the place to be.
This set back may be a bummer but considering I was once a homeless child---LIFE IS GOOD.
Thanks for all your support
Mikey P
Administrator
Are you coming to Vegas John?
Bob Foster
Member
- Joined
- Oct 8, 2006
- Messages
- 8,870
John if you really want to see how powerful the influence is here know this. The collective conscience of this board will not let this issue die until YOU DO GET YOUR MONEY BACK and at the very least see to it that nobody who reads this board buys a unit until ACE makes things right.
AL NESSINGER - SHAME ON YOU!
AL NESSINGER - SHAME ON YOU!
V
vegijohn
Guest
Mikey P said:
YES I am. I can't wait to see ACE's empty booths. Boy is he wasting his-- (I mean My) Money. LOL
alazo1
Member
Sorry to hear that, it sucks and you're taking it very well. Make up some letters of what this company did to you and hand it to everyone that visits his booth. Bastards !
Albert
Albert
steve g
Member
maybe you need to have an ACE equipment steals peoples money tshirt made up and come to connections
Steve Toburen
Supportive Member
- Joined
- Oct 23, 2006
- Messages
- 1,912
- Name
- Steve Toburen
There is a lot of pain on this thread. A lot more than 23,000 bucks worth. The down-time, aggravation and "managerial dilution" (to use an old Mack Clark phrase) are beyond a price.
Let me be clear on one thing. It is inexcusable and so very sad when ANY business does not honor its word. (Not too mention very short-sighted in this Internet day of instant and very public customer service feed-back. Witness this thread.)
However, we (carpet cleaners) sometimes can be our own worst enemies when it comes to choosing our equipment. I don't know of another industry where the profit potential is so great and the cost of the equipment is so low AND meanwhile the end-users obsess over literally pennies per hour of capitalized machine use. (This is just my general ruminating and not directed specifically at anyone on this thread.)
Please listen carefully here. There are issues soooooo much greater than the selling price of the machine. Here is what I came up with after many years of grief and stupid decisions. Learn from my bone-headed mistakes and wow did I make a lot of them!
1. Reliability- This above all else. It is no fun desperately trying to get a machine running halfway through a job while the customer is glaring suspiciously from her doorway. Been there- done that. (It is even worse at 2 AM in the morning on a half done restaurant! Especially when it is 10 degrees outside and snowing. Ahhh yes ... the memories!)
2. Service- Local if possible- easily performed by you if not. Plus you don't want to run it in to the distributor for every little thing anyway- so make it easily serviced. Since I lived 200 miles from the nearest distributor of anything I was stuck being my own mechanic. I found 90% of TM problems were related to how things were connected. Wiring connections, pulleys, belts, etc. Vibration is your enemy with TM's.
3. Performance- Almost all truck mounts will do a good job on short run residential but more power is always better. (I have to throw this in for the V-cult!)
4. Warranty- It all gets back to trust, decency and serving the customer over the long term. Remember that your distributor is the key on warranty. Unfortunately, you as an end-user have little influence with a grudging manufacturer. Your distributor has lots of power ... IF they will step up to the plate.
5. Noise- Some localities are getting finicky on noise pollution and on late night commercial work ticked off neighbors are always a negative Moment of Truth. Not to mention that I only have 50% hearing in one ear- at least partially due to TM's. (Shooting guns without ear protection didn't help either.)
6. Fuel savings- This one is starting to get my attention in the era of 3.00 and up per gallon gas.
7. Appearance- All other things being equal it is nice if they look good.
8. Price- I don't want to do a Dennis Miller style rant here but WHY would anyone want to entrust their livelihood to a machine that does not meet the above criteria? (And some of the marginal machines profiled lately here on this board do not remotely come close. In this capitalistic system of things you usually do get what you pay for)
9. Resale value- Frankly after 5,000 hours I didn't care a whole lot about this one. (See my PS below.) But name brand machines will sell more quickly. My second tier TM mistakes usually wound up going to the landfill.
When you are considering prices don't focus on the total price of a quality, name brand machine. Instead, look at the difference between it and a low-ball competitor. Let's say you are undecided on a 8K second-tier unit or a quality 20K machine. Do the math on the difference assuming you will sell it with 6,000 hours on the meter. It works out literally to pennies per hour. (And the quality machine will bring more when you sell it too.) But meanwhile- the reliability, service and power, not too mention lower blood pressure for you? PRICELESS!
My two cents,
Steve Toburen CR
Director of Training
Jon-Don's Strategies for Success
PS Let me stress that I am not dissing any specific machine/ brand and/or company here. My duties with Jon-Don have nothing to do with equipment sales. In fact, I don't even make specific machine/ brand recommendations anymore to our SFS members simply because my product knowledge is so hopelessly out of date. But I do believe the principles listed above are timeless.
NOTE: In an industry with a revolving door bunch of start-ups there are some quality used truckmounts out there with very low hours. If initial budget was a serious concern for me (remember, we are talking pennies per hour here over the life of the machine) I would be looking at some of these lightly used units instead of a new machine by a manufacturer or distributor with a dubious reputation.
I would also add that most carpet cleaners wait too long to add a second truck ... even if they don't have employees. ALL machines have down times- even the best ones. The security of having a back-up machine available is- you guessed it- PRICELESS! (Think about how many jobs you need to do per month to justify the overhead costs of a back-up unit. My guess is not many.)
I usually sold my TM/ trucks when they hit 5,000-6,000 hours. Even back in the 1980's I calculated that at this point a unit had produced over half a million dollars for me. Not a bad return and therefore why would I replace it with anything less than the most reliable unit out there?
Just like a marriage mate, you and your TM are going to be spending a lot of time together. And splitting up will involve a lot of grief and expense. So choose wisely and go with quality. Speaking of which Sioux is calling. Gotta go ...
BTW, like Ken Snow I would never pay 100% up-front. On the other hand, I would try to never do business with any company where I was afraid to pay 100% up-front! Trust, honor, competence, service. That is what you are all providing your customers. (And they pay for this quality.) Expect the same from your supplier ... and be willing to pay for it.
Sutley Word Counter: 1,111 words. (Dang. I gotta start charging Jon-Don by the word for this stuff. Heck, I should just start charging. Believe it or not this is on my own time!)
Let me be clear on one thing. It is inexcusable and so very sad when ANY business does not honor its word. (Not too mention very short-sighted in this Internet day of instant and very public customer service feed-back. Witness this thread.)
However, we (carpet cleaners) sometimes can be our own worst enemies when it comes to choosing our equipment. I don't know of another industry where the profit potential is so great and the cost of the equipment is so low AND meanwhile the end-users obsess over literally pennies per hour of capitalized machine use. (This is just my general ruminating and not directed specifically at anyone on this thread.)
Please listen carefully here. There are issues soooooo much greater than the selling price of the machine. Here is what I came up with after many years of grief and stupid decisions. Learn from my bone-headed mistakes and wow did I make a lot of them!
1. Reliability- This above all else. It is no fun desperately trying to get a machine running halfway through a job while the customer is glaring suspiciously from her doorway. Been there- done that. (It is even worse at 2 AM in the morning on a half done restaurant! Especially when it is 10 degrees outside and snowing. Ahhh yes ... the memories!)
2. Service- Local if possible- easily performed by you if not. Plus you don't want to run it in to the distributor for every little thing anyway- so make it easily serviced. Since I lived 200 miles from the nearest distributor of anything I was stuck being my own mechanic. I found 90% of TM problems were related to how things were connected. Wiring connections, pulleys, belts, etc. Vibration is your enemy with TM's.
3. Performance- Almost all truck mounts will do a good job on short run residential but more power is always better. (I have to throw this in for the V-cult!)
4. Warranty- It all gets back to trust, decency and serving the customer over the long term. Remember that your distributor is the key on warranty. Unfortunately, you as an end-user have little influence with a grudging manufacturer. Your distributor has lots of power ... IF they will step up to the plate.
5. Noise- Some localities are getting finicky on noise pollution and on late night commercial work ticked off neighbors are always a negative Moment of Truth. Not to mention that I only have 50% hearing in one ear- at least partially due to TM's. (Shooting guns without ear protection didn't help either.)
6. Fuel savings- This one is starting to get my attention in the era of 3.00 and up per gallon gas.
7. Appearance- All other things being equal it is nice if they look good.
8. Price- I don't want to do a Dennis Miller style rant here but WHY would anyone want to entrust their livelihood to a machine that does not meet the above criteria? (And some of the marginal machines profiled lately here on this board do not remotely come close. In this capitalistic system of things you usually do get what you pay for)
9. Resale value- Frankly after 5,000 hours I didn't care a whole lot about this one. (See my PS below.) But name brand machines will sell more quickly. My second tier TM mistakes usually wound up going to the landfill.
When you are considering prices don't focus on the total price of a quality, name brand machine. Instead, look at the difference between it and a low-ball competitor. Let's say you are undecided on a 8K second-tier unit or a quality 20K machine. Do the math on the difference assuming you will sell it with 6,000 hours on the meter. It works out literally to pennies per hour. (And the quality machine will bring more when you sell it too.) But meanwhile- the reliability, service and power, not too mention lower blood pressure for you? PRICELESS!
My two cents,
Steve Toburen CR
Director of Training
Jon-Don's Strategies for Success
PS Let me stress that I am not dissing any specific machine/ brand and/or company here. My duties with Jon-Don have nothing to do with equipment sales. In fact, I don't even make specific machine/ brand recommendations anymore to our SFS members simply because my product knowledge is so hopelessly out of date. But I do believe the principles listed above are timeless.
NOTE: In an industry with a revolving door bunch of start-ups there are some quality used truckmounts out there with very low hours. If initial budget was a serious concern for me (remember, we are talking pennies per hour here over the life of the machine) I would be looking at some of these lightly used units instead of a new machine by a manufacturer or distributor with a dubious reputation.
I would also add that most carpet cleaners wait too long to add a second truck ... even if they don't have employees. ALL machines have down times- even the best ones. The security of having a back-up machine available is- you guessed it- PRICELESS! (Think about how many jobs you need to do per month to justify the overhead costs of a back-up unit. My guess is not many.)
I usually sold my TM/ trucks when they hit 5,000-6,000 hours. Even back in the 1980's I calculated that at this point a unit had produced over half a million dollars for me. Not a bad return and therefore why would I replace it with anything less than the most reliable unit out there?
Just like a marriage mate, you and your TM are going to be spending a lot of time together. And splitting up will involve a lot of grief and expense. So choose wisely and go with quality. Speaking of which Sioux is calling. Gotta go ...
BTW, like Ken Snow I would never pay 100% up-front. On the other hand, I would try to never do business with any company where I was afraid to pay 100% up-front! Trust, honor, competence, service. That is what you are all providing your customers. (And they pay for this quality.) Expect the same from your supplier ... and be willing to pay for it.
Sutley Word Counter: 1,111 words. (Dang. I gotta start charging Jon-Don by the word for this stuff. Heck, I should just start charging. Believe it or not this is on my own time!)
Bob Foster
Member
- Joined
- Oct 8, 2006
- Messages
- 8,870
Steve, let me calculate this using your scenario.........
Machine cost $23,000.00
Hours 0
Cost per hour $23,000
Life Expectancy 0 hours
Resale Value $00,000.00
Value to this readership that John had the guts to say he got screwed and membership on a board that will stand up and help his cause:
$5 bucks a month
Machine cost $23,000.00
Hours 0
Cost per hour $23,000
Life Expectancy 0 hours
Resale Value $00,000.00
Value to this readership that John had the guts to say he got screwed and membership on a board that will stand up and help his cause:
$5 bucks a month
J Scott W
Member
Steve - another 70 words and you have your next article for ICS.
Scott Warrington
Scott Warrington
Steve Toburen
Supportive Member
- Joined
- Oct 23, 2006
- Messages
- 1,912
- Name
- Steve Toburen
Scott,
I would never "double dip." The shame, the shame.
Look for my ICS article on how to choose a truck mount toward the end of the year ...
Island Boy
PS Will I see you at Connections, Scott? Looking forward to it.
I would never "double dip." The shame, the shame.
Look for my ICS article on how to choose a truck mount toward the end of the year ...
Island Boy
PS Will I see you at Connections, Scott? Looking forward to it.
Words of wisdom from Steve... Especially number 1. Seriously, I've been cleaning for about 14 years. Maybe not as long as some here but long enough to have made every mistake in the book. Spend money on quality items whether it's your truckmount, tools , chemicals or what have you.. What good did saving 10 grand up front do you if your machine breaks down often? I've had truckmounts with cheap heat exchangers, cheap pumps, cheap radiators, cheap hoses/lines... And every time something broke there goes another day and another thousand dollars down the drain and my stress level goes through the roof. It isn't worth it...
Ken Snow
RIP
LOL Steve, I swear I was out at 2am nursing mine in the winter in the 80's while I was still on the road as a cleaner. So happy we did exactly what you said and have gone with quality units that have high resale.
I also overstated my position about prepaying. I should have said I would never make a first purchase that way. In fact we send Butler between $250,000 & $400,000 a few days before they ship our units each year and it would never cross my mind that we would not get them. Like JonDon, Pemberton's, Greenglides and many others their integrity is impeccable.
Ken
I also overstated my position about prepaying. I should have said I would never make a first purchase that way. In fact we send Butler between $250,000 & $400,000 a few days before they ship our units each year and it would never cross my mind that we would not get them. Like JonDon, Pemberton's, Greenglides and many others their integrity is impeccable.
Ken
steve g
Member
steve, the guy didn't come here to be lectured on his choice of machine. for all he knew he very well could have been convinced he was buying the best machine for the money, after all 23k isn't exactly cheap for a machine without all the accesories, infact I consider it on the upper end money wise, I think you can get into a genesis or everest for about the same or less money, which are not considered entry level machines. the guy got phucked and thank god he had the guts to come tell the rest of us so noone else gets the hoseing. thanks to mikee for allowing such a thing to be posted, again proof of where you internet time should be spent.
Desk Jockey
Member
The Diashin was over built, that baby was a tank...now if they could have only had parts for them! 
hogjowl
Idiot™
Parts were available for those of us in the states, Chavez. It was Mexican tariff's that caused your problems getting parts.
steve g
Member
check out the ACE website, it still says chemspec equipment on the link, on wonder what chemspec thinks of this, also they list distributors, I wonder why this machine was not ordered through one of them, also larry, you are listed as a distrubtor, you might wanna change that after this
Desk Jockey
Member
Just when I was starting to like you (Not really, but it sounds better for the story!), you go and say something like that!
I would bet, " the Guy", wishes like hell that he had come here to get lectured before he sent the money. I know I sure wish I had.
Heck, I would have been much better off if Ace had ripped me off the 23,000.00 Instead, they sent the frickin machine. It has cost me, maybe ten times that .
Now that I think about it, ole Al is doing him a big favor. He's actually getting out cheap.
Heck, I would have been much better off if Ace had ripped me off the 23,000.00 Instead, they sent the frickin machine. It has cost me, maybe ten times that .
Now that I think about it, ole Al is doing him a big favor. He's actually getting out cheap.
Bob Foster
Member
- Joined
- Oct 8, 2006
- Messages
- 8,870
Wow - thank God I met Les and his father - I just about was going to buy one of those machines from ACE. The Judson's are currently building my unit now.
