HydraMaster CDSxDrive Overview from the Experience
- Thread starter Mikey P
- Start date
SamIam
Member
dgardner
Moderator
Sam,
Keep in mind that you have to think a little differently than with traditional cds-type machines. The quoted speed is only for the van's engine and is constant. The blower can turn at any speed - set by the electric motor controller (four different preset speeds). As you increase the blower speed the van stays at 2000 but the generator loads the engine down more, increasing fuel consumption, and vice-versa as you lower the blower speed.
Mark Saiger
Mr Happy!
1750 RPM on high
I'm interested in the fuel usage of the v6 at 2000rpms vs the 6.0 at 1500
Bob Pruitt
Member
Not as good as the first Mikey and Saiger video. I now know a little more about the new technology available for the Transit Van. If there is a belt down in there on that generator then it will be something someone will have to change occasionally. I believe the belts on the machine are very easy to change but the belt on the generator could be difficult, maybe from below it isn't so lost in there..so I don't know. This is going to be interesting to watch.
dgardner
Moderator
Bob, not sure but from what was showed I believe the generator runs off the same serpentine belt that drives the rest of the engine accessories.
dgardner
Moderator
Chris, not a direct comparison. The new machine drives the blower at different speeds depending on the speed switch on the front of the machine, while the engine always turns at 2000 rpm. the fuel consumption will be very different depending on the blower speed setting.
dgardner
Moderator
Definitely! They mentioned in the video that the generator produces 18kw (18000 watts). The basic conversion is 746 watts per hp, so 18000/746 is roughly 24hp, a pretty hefty electric motor.
SamIam
Member
I was only referring to the engine rpm, I'm sure they spin the pump and blower higher.
I'm also interested in how much fuel savings between 1500 and 2000 rpm's
But the ford gets better gas milage then the Chevy so even running higher rpm's it might use close to the same fuel.
I doubt hydramaster would make a gas guzzler.
dgardner
Moderator
Sam, imagine sitting in your car with the shifter in park. hold your foot on the gas and rev it up to 1500. Now rev it up to 2000. The fuel consumption will be nearly identical because there isn't any load on the engine, it's spinning freely. The fuel consumption changes when you load the engine down. With the x-Drive the engine is loaded electronically, not by changing engine speed.
Imagine going downhill in your car. How much throttle is needed to maintain 2000 rpm? Little if any. If your car has a mileage calculator it will say your mileage is insanely high, like 90mpg. Now drive up a steep hill and maintain 2000. You will be near full throttle, and your mileage thingy will say 9 or 10mpg, same rpm. It's not the rpm that determines fuel consumption, it's the load.
SamIam
Member
I would think accelerating the gas would use gas.
dgardner
Moderator
The only real reason that the x-Drive spins the engine at 2000 rpm is the generator needs a minimum speed to attain full output, same as any alternator.
dgardner
Moderator
Well, sure, to a tiny extent. No engine spins completely freely, there is internal friction and accessories to drive (like the water pump, oil pump, alternator), but that's focusing on pennies while ignoring the dollars.
Remember that the x-Drive's conversion to and from electricity wastes several percent of the available power, even that loss is more than the little bit of change you would see revving the engine up to 2000.
Cleanworks
Moderator
I have to say that I was impressed by the x-drive. I have always had a fondness for Hydramaster, having worked with them and owning one. They have always been reliable for me. The only thing is, I think you would want a hydramaster service department nearby as I don't think you want to wrench on this yourself. Blower and pump maintenance will be the same but you want a trained tech to look over everything else. Performance was great.
dgardner
Moderator
Don't worry, Les will soon re-engineer it to tear out the electronics and simplify things greatly.... 
Nampa Carpet Cleaning
Member
18 Kilowatts is around 25 hp. Oops didn't see Dan G already posted the numbers. Looks like a cool machine.
Last edited:
dgardner
Moderator
Get outta town..... Really?
Nampa Carpet Cleaning
Member
I didn't see you already posted it, funny
dealtimeman
Everyday is Saturday.
I also was impressed, especially turning a 408 trilobe blower. REALLY HELD ITS POWER.
bow to see reliability and if yEs they have a real winner.
bow to see reliability and if yEs they have a real winner.
Lee Stockwell
FOJL
While theoretically "horsepower is horsepower", generally electric motors of a given HP have more power than a similarly rated gas engine.
....unless it's the crazy "hp" listed for some vacuums and shop vacs.
....unless it's the crazy "hp" listed for some vacuums and shop vacs.
When are they gonna upgrade it to 1.21giggawatts
Onfire_02_01
Member
As soon as Doc slips on a tub, hitting his head and builds the flux capacitor.When are they gonna upgrade it to 1.21giggawatts
Anyone tried mounting the blower and pump in the engine compartment? Would probably require a bulge in the hood and/or other body modification, but would be simpler mechanically and probably less expensive.
For the electric motor to work properly it must have the voltage and Cycles it was designed for. A generator will put out different cycles per second at different rpm. If they ran the ford motor at 1500 rpm the cycles per second would be way off and the electric motor would heat up and be very inefficient.
Most electric motors are very sensitive to input power changes.
I wonder what Voltage and Cycles per second the electric motor is designed for.
Dan, It will be interesting to find out how much the conversion/reconversion costs in lost energy.
The Xdrive should cost significantly more than the old direct drive units.. A generator and an electric motor to replace the old power transfer system of a couple of pulleys and a drive shaft.
Most electric motors are very sensitive to input power changes.
I wonder what Voltage and Cycles per second the electric motor is designed for.
Dan, It will be interesting to find out how much the conversion/reconversion costs in lost energy.
The Xdrive should cost significantly more than the old direct drive units.. A generator and an electric motor to replace the old power transfer system of a couple of pulleys and a drive shaft.
dealtimeman
Everyday is Saturday.
batteries buffer the transfer and ensure constant power.
F
FB7777
Guest
Looks interesting... More so when there are no other available options for a drive shaft install
Couple years in the field and incremental improvements and I'll take a look
Couple years in the field and incremental improvements and I'll take a look
dgardner
Moderator
The generator frequency changes with speed unless the output is DC, still don't know for sure.
If the generator / motor is AC, then the "motor controller" is certainly an inverter (VFD drive). The first thing a VFD does is convert the incoming AC to DC, then chops the DC back up into AC at any frequency desired, so the frequency of the generator output wouldn't be critical.
If the generator / motor is AC, then the "motor controller" is certainly an inverter (VFD drive). The first thing a VFD does is convert the incoming AC to DC, then chops the DC back up into AC at any frequency desired, so the frequency of the generator output wouldn't be critical.
