Cheap Truckmounts at risk?

[Mikey P]

Take the ChemTex, Amtex, Nicktex and now TerjeTex, add in the Blue Barons and a handful of other companies that appeal to start ups and budget minded POG graduates and you have a LOT of units being sold.
Lots.

Enough to catch the attention of Northern Tool.

This mega company wants in on the action and according to a reliable source, they will soon be adding to their

How will this effect the big guys like Sapphire, Butler, Prochem and Hydramaster? Will veteran cleaners who have avoided the low cost/lower quality machines be interested in the Northern units? Cheap Chinese components would keep that from happening but from what I hear Kohler and Honda motors are being used, so I'll assume Cat and or General will get the pumps and GD or Tuthill will get the blowers...

The next question is service, having never been to a Northern Tool store I have no idea if they are able to install and maintain machines like this. Anyone here have any experience with them in this regard?

Will they start selling chems and supplies? Right now all I see being sold are fans and Namco extractors?


The age of the Box Store is coming to our industry...

 

[Mike Draper]

Some of those machines belong at Harbor Freight. As mechanically inclined as I am, having made the possible mistake of purhasing one of those machines instead of my used butler when I started would have most certainly put me under. There is a market for everyone though, and those seems to fit a good share of that beginners market.

 

[Mikey P]

There is a market for everyone though, and those seems to fit a good share of that beginners market.

No argument


$6000 machines in $6000 vans aint a bad way to start out if the set up presents well.

 

[Dolly Llama]

but from what I hear Kohler and Honda motors are being used, so I'll assume Cat and or General will get the pumps and GD or Tuthill will get the blowers.

good components alone does not a good TM make

Chemtex uses good parts, but has a poor reputation for reliability.
what COULD work though, would be knock-off clones of older proven designs

Most all of my power tools are DeWalt, Bosch and Makita
But I also have Harbor Freight tools...... "some"of them, have turned out to be very good/solid built tools .
The ones that worked out well, are mostly knock-offs of older "name brand/contractor grade" design nailers, bandsaws, sanders and jointers

if they were to clone a proven older design TM.... say like an '85 Prochem Legend and sell it for $7000...or maybe a 405 @ $12,000...yea, they'd put a dent in the market


..L.T.A.

 

[hogjowl]

This development will only increase the churn of our industry. The cream will still be found at the top.

 

[KevinD]

No argument
$6000 machines in $6000 vans aint a bad way to start out if the set up presents well.

That is how I eked out a living for 35 years.

 

[FB7777]

Yea there is plenty of room for more inferior low priced problematic cheap equipment in this industry

The churn rate of cleaners in this biz is ridiculous, so if you're inevitably going to crash and burn , its best not to liquidate your 401K in the process

 

[Dolly Llama]

Now, on the other hand.....

The next question is service,

not so much service, but parts

I was looking at Tractor Supply's UTV's ....simply because they were in the "affordable" range (meaning pay cash/no financing)
They're half the price of comparable Deere, Yamaha, Cub Cadet and Polaris models

I talked to a friend (previous Yamaha dealer) that sold the dealership years ago and now only does service/repairs and builds for all bikes, quads, etc

he told me don't bother with them....
Not that they're really "all that bad" ...just that you can't get parts


..L.T.A.

 

[Ron K]

Money ain't in the Machines its in the Juice! So I've been told.

 

[Mikey P]

Correct.

It will be very interesting to see what lines they sell...

Place your bets now

 

[Desk Jockey]

What is just so wrong is these people can least afford to make big ticket putchasing mistakes.

Its is "Big Box" styl. Service? Support and knowlegeable staff to help the cleaner? NO WAY.

 

[Dolly Llama]

Place your bets now

my bet?

...no effect on the direct drive manufactures
Little to no effect on the "Big Three"...SS, Prochem and Hydrmaster

the ones it could "potentially" effect the most, would be the small time and/or backyard builders.
Namco, Cobblet, Judstone, Chemtex, EEZEE, TCS, etc...the "cottage industry" builders , if you will

a couple "cookie cutter" units (one entry level and one mid size) with HX system that can deliver "adequate" heat (180-200 at 6 flow w/normal duty cycle) at a Chinese manufacture/labor price point???....hell yea it will hurt them


something few consider when it comes to Chinese manufacture...they see it as "cheap crap"
we made that same mistake in the '60s and early '70s with Japan...few look at "made in Japan" as cheap crap today...cause it's not

Same for China ..they're a modern industrial giant with modern tooling, methods and systems...they're not third world mudhut majoons working with 70 year old tooling
They can build quality or cheap...they'll build whatever the customer specs


..L.T.A.

 

[ronbeatty]

After some of the post I have seen on this board about the $20,000 and $30,000 new units, I don't know if would be any worse. Being the manufacturers R&D department should not happen at that price range.

 

[FB7777]

Correct.

It will be very interesting to see what lines they sell...

Place your bets now

My guess is that for juice they will go private label

The major labels are all higher priced which would provide HarborFreight too low of a profit margin

Their customer probably won't want to pay more than $10-15 for a gallon of suds, regardless of dilution ratio

 

[Captain America]

I have had 3 northern tools kero burners 2 have lasted 10 years with no problems...sold the other with machine.
Costs 1000$ each now they are 1500$.
Best investment I ever made in my naamco truckmounts
Took one of the burners in for service and they fixe it no problems.
Northern tools guys have been around awhile..they may impact this industry.
IMO truckmounts are over engineered and overpriced and can become complicated to fix ..especially with hx's
I think judson guys have a lot of wisdom to give our industry....keep it simple! !
All a truckmount consists of is size of engine, size of blower and heat and how to fix it!!!!

 

[Desk Jockey]

and it will likely be some watered down diluted RTU piss.

 

[Captain America]

They may impact the manufacturers, but what about new carpet cleaners that can go down to there local northern tools stores and purchase a truckmount. This could saturate the market real quick.
Also northern tools have a good reputation and I have 3-4 stores within 2 hours living here in central texas.

 

[Mark Saiger]

Take the ChemTex, Amtex, Nicktex and now TerjeTex, add in the Blue Barons and a handful of other companies that appeal to start ups and budget minded POG graduates and you have a LOT of units being sold.
Lots.

Enough to catch the attention of Northern Tool.

This mega company wants in on the action and according to a reliable source, they will soon be adding to their

How will this effect the big guys like Sapphire, Butler, Prochem and Hydramaster? Will veteran cleaners who have avoided the low cost/lower quality machines be interested in the Northern units? Cheap Chinese components would keep that from happening but from what I hear Kohler and Honda motors are being used, so I'll assume Cat and or General will get the pumps and GD or Tuthill will get the blowers...

The next question is service, having never been to a Northern Tool store I have no idea if they are able to install and maintain machines like this. Anyone here have any experience with them in this regard?

Will they start selling chems and supplies? Right now all I see being sold are fans and Namco extractors?


The age of the Box Store is coming to our industry...

Friend of mine bought one of the mentioned TM's.....

Bought this Spring....Company has agreed to take it back and give them their money back...

They just flew out to Nevada few days ago and bought a nice used 2011 Butler....

Cheap is cheap....and if you want to make a living as a carpet cleaner....and not a mechanic....well....you know....

 

[Mikey P]

Judson needs to ditch the propane and the warmonger if they want to really effect the market share

 

[D Luke]

something few consider when it comes to Chinese manufacture...they see it as "cheap crap"
we made that same mistake in the '60s and early '70s with Japan...few look at "made in Japan" as cheap crap today...cause it's not

Same for China ..they're a modern industrial giant with modern tooling, methods and systems...they're not third world mudhut majoons working with 70 year old tooling
They can build quality or cheap...they'll build whatever the customer specs


..L.T.A.

Lot of truth in that. I recently bought a (relatively) expensive, (relatively) high end outboard boat motor from a major manufacturer. Turns out it's manufactured in China.

I literally cannot say enough good about it. It's an absolute marvel of performance and engineering.

If the specs and QC are there you can get amazing value from China.

Still a lot of junk coming from them as well.

 

[D Luke]

Judson needs to ditch the propane and the warmonger if they want to really effect the market share

Don't know who the warmonger is, but a decently hot HX Judson would definetly be on my radar if it was actually available.

 

[FB7777]

I don't know any cleaner that runs propane.

One of the advantages to a direct drive is capturing the heat off the van and the blower

Judson units are simple in design, but that would change if they ditched propane and had to start dealing with HX

 

[Mikey P]

Don't know who the warmonger is, but a decently hot HX Judson would definetly be on my radar if it was actually available.

Cobbs makes that machine essentially. Aluminum tank that is half fresh and half waste. Otherwise laid out in much the same way. If you plan on keeping your unit for 20 years then maybe the massive stainless Judsson tank makes sense

 

[Desk Jockey]

"if"I wanted a propane unit, I'd buy a Judson. Its got a great track record and has shown it lasts.

 

[Dolly Llama]

If the specs and QC are there you can get amazing value from China.

Still a lot of junk coming from them as well.

Absolutely on both counts
One can pay a little or a lot for appliances and electronics
The good ones (generally reflected in the price) will last
The cheap onea may not
But they're ALL made in China

the custy can spec heavy duty switches and hardware or light duty crAp.

They make them anyway the custy wants

As far juice. ..the industry is a wash (no pun intended) in juices.
From bathtub gin makers to big league plants that all they do is make juices and fill jugs with with different manufacturers names on em

Hell for all I know NT already sells degreasers n stuff
Wouldn't be nothing to put a "carpet cleaning" label on one of their butyl cleaners

LTA

 

[Captain America]

Briggs - made in. US
Kholer- US
Honda- foreign maybe japan?althoug they have some manufactured in states
Generac- US..Wisconsin .....

 

[Dolly Llama]

Honda has some made in China too

LTA

 

[Ralph Pastorelli]

My 1st van in 1991 was a 1986 Chevy meat wagon that smelled like rotting meat, took days to get the smell out and cost me $5600 and put a old Hydramaster Hydra Cat in it. That machine was a trouble machine but only paid $3000 for it. Then a year later bought a entry level Prochem Cub for 3 years, then moved up to a Bruin and 2002 Ford extended van.

 

[Lee Stockwell]

ALL

Briggs - made in. US
Kholer- US
Honda- foreign maybe japan?althoug they have some manufactured in states
Generac- US..Wisconsin .....

of the above also made in China Cap.

 

[Captain America]

Kholer founded in 1889 in Wisconsin
Briggs founded in 1909 also in Wisconsin
Generac started around 1959 with generators for sears
Honda founded by japenese in. ???