I've been arguing with some idiots about which type of rinse to use on residential.

Loren Egland

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I’m glad I didn’t run out of money so I had to only water rinse. :)

I’ve been using mostly powdered alkaline carpet extraction detergent for 49 no problem years. It can clean well enough at times that no pre-spray is needed. I just don’t FEEL right using water only. :(

What floats your boat?

Leaving the carpet its driest, softest, least chemical residue, safest, neutral pH, or CLEANEST? Wouldn’t cleanest be the best for the indoor environment?

Different strokes for different folks.

Wetter water cleans better and a compatible rinse agent can help chemically attract the traffic lane cleaner so it is better removed. Often it is the tlc residue that attracts soil and not the rinsing chemicals.

Agree with Tom Forsythe “A few principles that I believe in are: soft water is better to use than hard water; phosphates in a solution even at high dilution will carry away in the water stream more globs of soils and oils (micelles) than water alone.”
 

Hack Attack

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this thread prove what @Desk Jockey said on another thread, that just because you're an owner operator don't think you're better than a well trained tech following a system

and the most expensive chemical in this industry isn't your prespray or rinse it's fuel, I use whatever chemistry minimises my truckmount runtime without being visibly noticable
 
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sassyotto

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for what its worth, heres my take.

1. Dilution ratios for presprays from the manufacturer dont take into account using a CRB or other mechanical agitation. That being said, it is perfectly logical that you can dilute prespray even further IF you use a CRB (not to save money - you just dont need it). Yes, on rat nasties you can boost it as needed, but for most cleaning a reduced dilution works just fine.

2. if you arent using that much cleaning agent, your rinse is much more effective.

based on the above 2 assumptions (im not a chemist) although reluctant, I did try rinsing with water only about 10 years back. Not only did I find that the carpet came just as clean with water only as with a rinse but (and much more important) when I came back for future cleanings the carpet was not as dirty as it normally was. Most of my customers clean at regular intervals so this was easy to see but again not scientific.

I was so convinced that when it came time to replace a water pump, I never even added the chem pump to it because I preferred using water rinse only (softener required)
 

Cleanworks

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for what its worth, heres my take.

1. Dilution ratios for presprays from the manufacturer dont take into account using a CRB or other mechanical agitation. That being said, it is perfectly logical that you can dilute prespray even further IF you use a CRB (not to save money - you just dont need it). Yes, on rat nasties you can boost it as needed, but for most cleaning a reduced dilution works just fine.

2. if you arent using that much cleaning agent, your rinse is much more effective.

based on the above 2 assumptions (im not a chemist) although reluctant, I did try rinsing with water only about 10 years back. Not only did I find that the carpet came just as clean with water only as with a rinse but (and much more important) when I came back for future cleanings the carpet was not as dirty as it normally was. Most of my customers clean at regular intervals so this was easy to see but again not scientific.

I was so convinced that when it came time to replace a water pump, I never even added the chem pump to it because I preferred using water rinse only (softener required)
I've been doing this for almost 40 years now. At one time we didn't prespray, just used an emulsifier. Then presprays appeared and we did both. Then we just water rinsed, then we acid rinsed. All the time manufacturers were changing their formulas to meet the needs of the carpet manufacturers. I have seen the difference in all of these methods and for my money, the best combo is a prespray designed for the job at hand followed by an alkaline rinsed. The biggest problem with water rinsing is if the carpet is not coming clean enough, you have to stop what you are doing, re prespray the area and cleaning it again. If you had a good alkaline detergent metered through the truck, you usually need to hit again or more slowly and it will come out. I used to work for a company that water rinsed and hated it.
 

SamIam

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On a group text.


These guys are stuck on the old "alkaline prespray, acid rinse" rule of thumb on their synthetic carpet, they're scared to use just water. They'd rather waste money on chemicals not needed and have that piece of mind thinking that the carpet won't be stiff. I'm sure they're lurking on here, so someone tell them that just rinsing properly with hot water will make that carpet come out just as soft and clean as using an acid rinse.

Keep in mind, they're using a ph product of around 10.5 I think, and they are out west, so I'm sure a water softener is needed. So I'm just saying that normal water, preferrably soft on their dirt, will do just fine and save chemical cost. And won't wick back if it's fully rinsed. It can possibly wick back if it's down in the pad, but using a acid rinse or plain water won't make any difference.

I'm blowing this out of proportion, but if bugs the s*** out of me, because they're trying to make me look like a moron.

So fellow 1-3%er Mikeyboarders...show your knowledge.
Cheap ass
 

Matt Wood

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Pre spray what works best for the carpet your cleaning, rinse with last step. It super
Cheap.
My main argument was them telling me I was a dumbass because I told him that his acid rinse was not needed on that situation and water was just as good and alkaline rinse was better.

My point on wasting money was the fact that he was wasting it on the acid rinse. I have both my rinse jugs (alkaline, and acid) used regularly, and I use plain water when I feel they're not needed.

Me no cheapskate
 

Tom Forsythe

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We do not know how many in the industry use water only. Our rinse sales are about 60% acid and 40% alkaline. My guess industry wide they would be 50/50 with the balance using water only. Label suggested dilutions are not a result of scientific calculations. They are estimates which should be adjusted based on soils, water quality, carpet type, equipment, technician skills, etc.

Some talk a lot about cost. My opinion is that cleaners ultimately determine cost by how much water they add. I am happy for cleaners to compare ready to use gallon costs and add more water to our products to match cost of other products. If your products are more concentrated, then they will cost more but can be diluted further than other products.
 
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bob vawter

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My main argument was them telling me I was a dumbass because I told him that his acid rinse was not needed on that situation and water was just as good and alkaline rinse was better.

My point on wasting money was the fact that he was wasting it on the acid rinse. I have both my rinse jugs (alkaline, and acid) used regularly, and I use plain water when I feel they're not needed.

Me no cheapskate
however...the fact remains that you are STILL a dumbass........yor lik a windmil....whichever the wind blows...there goes Matt Wood!!!
 

steve_64

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The return on cost is repeat and referal work.

My water costs include sewage which is fixexed at $50 and then water which runs about $20 a month.
Salt I go through about 6 bags a year at about $6 ea and the electric to run that.
.
The last 6 month's or so I've gone through about 3 or 4 gallons of rinse. A couple glugs per 5 gallons of concentrate that gets me through a 100 gallons of softened water. Sometimes I just fill the jug with water no rinse.

Fuel is about $6 an hour and I can go through the 100 gallons in two hours but it's usually 3 or 4.

That little bit of rinse is a blip. And it looks and feels better than just water. I used just water rinse for about 6 months when first got the WM then I got the feed fixed.

Used just alkaline rinse for about 6 months then started dabling with acid rinses. Then doing all three for awhile before settling on what I'm doing now.

Oh yeah then there is labor costs for each hour worked.

And I make 3 to 4 hundred per 100 gallons of water.
 

ruff

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........ although reluctant, I did try rinsing with water only about 10 years back. Not only did I find that the carpet came just as clean with water only as with a rinse but (and much more important) when I came back for future cleanings the carpet was not as dirty as it normally was. Most of my customers clean at regular intervals so this was easy to see but again not scientific. ...
Funny how it goes differently for different folks.

Because, Four score and seven years ago after trying acid rinse, water alone (no chems) rinse, I switched to an alkaline (low dilution) rinse with lots of water and dry passes. I found out that it worked the best, and I've been many (scores :winky: ) times back and no re-appearing stains and or re-soiling issues at all.

Go figure!

Qualifier: With wool I use an acid side rinse with detergent.
 

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