I've been arguing with some idiots about which type of rinse to use on residential.

Papa John

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Well Matt, im a fellow "moron" who also likes to rinse with water only. I like the total control it gives me. For times when i want an acid rinse, I have a hydroforce filled a Last Step. Or when i think there might be alot of chem residue by the last guy i might use procyon.
My wand has a site glass, so i can see the condition of the water. I rinse until clear and dry stroke until dry.
By keeping the chems only in the hydroforce this is the ultimate last step injection system.
Stay strong, follow your heart and dont worry about trying to win people over to your opinion.
 
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Matt Wood

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I'm gonna ask you veterans in this business about what you remember the original purpose of our rinses were.?

If I'm not mistaken..back in the 70's and early 80's before truckmounted were easily accessible, using a rinse was a necessity because the hottest water you had was tap water hot (100-120f), you had limited water pressure 100-300psi, very low flow wands 2-4flow, and limited suction with your vacuum motors. So using a rinse to help break down the high amounts of butyl and dilimonene was always needed.

Let's fast forward to today.
200f-250f of hot water
500-600psi of 8-12 flow wands
Smarter phosphate based presprays
and incredible suction with 36blowers-650everest blowers

I've had very few callbacks in the 16 years I've been in business with resoiling and any wickback problems were due to heavy spots that had nothing to do with what my rinse was. And in my entire time of cleaning carpet, I've never had a callback on crispy carpet

Prove me wrong. With that comparison above...why do we still need a rinse additive when our process is 500% better flushing with our machines today compared to 40 years ago.? Because, from why point of view, the soap salesmen were selling those rinses with the presprays back in the day...they gotta keep the sales up. So be sure to add those big words in your description to make us dumbasses feel it's needed

I still use my alkaline rinse on my neglected carpets and restaurants, mainly, for the reason that you guys say it's needed. It's one of those things I do that's based on what the bigger guys are doing vs what I'm doing
 
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Matt Wood

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So from my line of thoughts on that comment above, I feel a sodium carbonate based rinse (clean free, etc) should be the only type of rinse that might be needed on any synthetic carpet, for the main reason of making the water softer in areas where water quality isn't so good.
 

sOOper hero

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why do we still need a rinse additive

because it conditions water better, which aids in flushing/rinsing soil and pre-sprays compared to soft water alone .

you only need a little ...appx 1/3 to 1/2 what manufactures suggest

you also get the benefit of cleaning where we generally don't need pre-spray
(under sofas, closets, beds etc)

acid rinses are for overthinking rocket surgeons and pack following mOOks

..L.T.A.
 

Hack Attack

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I think you're getting hung up on the pH

an acid rinse rinses better than water

an alkaline rinse rinses better than water

I clean at least 1 wool most days, and with experience I can clean with a high pH and plain water rinse without causing brownout

not advisable but yep I've had my chem feed go out, so gotta rinse way more and dry stroke more

wool shows you the residue is still there, just because synthetics dont show you its there doesnt mean its not

never used clean free.. what happens to the magic bubbles when its sitting in the rinse tank??
I'd want my bubbles I paid for them 🙂
 

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In short, phosphates are needed for free rinsing. Powdered pre-sprays in the pH 10 range have a lot of phosphate. Powdered rinses have a lot of phosphate. If you do not use a rinse then make sure you have a pre-spray with a lot of phosphate. Phosphate cost 4 times more than sodium carbonate and 3 times more than sodium metasilicate. The higher the pH of a powder the less expensive it should be and the harder it is to rinse. Use soft water for your truckmount's sake. There is a reason that truckmount manufacturer's do not warrant parts damaged by hard water (over 3.0 grains per gallon). One of the best discussions that I have seen for awhile. I am out of the office for awhile doing some training.
 

Cleanworks

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I'm gonna ask you veterans in this business about what you remember the original purpose of our rinses were.?

If I'm not mistaken..back in the 70's and early 80's before truckmounted were easily accessible, using a rinse was a necessity because the hottest water you had was tap water hot (100-120f), you had limited water pressure 100-300psi, very low flow wands 2-4flow, and limited suction with your vacuum motors. So using a rinse to help break down the high amounts of butyl and dilimonene was always needed.

Let's fast forward to today.
200f-250f of hot water
500-600psi of 8-12 flow wands
Smarter phosphate based presprays
and incredible suction with 36blowers-650everest blowers

I've had very few callbacks in the 16 years I've been in business with resoiling and any wickback problems were due to heavy spots that had nothing to do with what my rinse was. And in my entire time of cleaning carpet, I've never had a callback on crispy carpet

Prove me wrong. With that comparison above...why do we still need a rinse additive when our process is 500% better flushing with our machines today compared to 40 years ago.? Because, from why point of view, the soap salesmen were selling those rinses with the presprays back in the day...they gotta keep the sales up. So be sure to add those big words in your description to make us dumbasses feel it's needed

I still use my alkaline rinse on my neglected carpets and restaurants, mainly, for the reason that you guys say it's needed. It's one of those things I do that's based on what the bigger guys are doing vs what I'm doing
In the late 70's and 80's truck mounts were readily available here. Usually with propane heaters. We started off with just alkaline rinses, then some one invented presprays. The change was to prespray the high traffic areas and depend on the rinse to clean everything else. With today's modern chemistry, we depend on our presprays to do the heavy lifting and we can dilute our rinses a little more to cover everything else. The most important thing to learn is your dilution ratios. Especially when using soft water, you can dilute sometimes 1/3 to 1/2 of what the manufacturer recommends. If you over use the prespray and rinse system, you will leave a sticky mess behind. When you use a portable, it becomes more evident. You will feel the difference in your cleaning and you will probably experience over foaming in your waste tank. It does exactly the same in your truck but because of the power and capacity, you may not notice as much. Too much chemistry is worse that too little chemistry. You have to learn what works for you in your area. My philosophy has always been, rather than make my chemistry stronger, apply more of it. That means apply more prespray rather than stronger prespray and rather than crank up the rinse, just do more cleaning strokes.
 
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Complaint shouldn't be the basis on which you judge this by rather your repeat rate..
Ah the "repeat rate"....yes that's the reason my son Jason quit using clear rinse in the mid 1990's. He took over the commercial recurring accounts of my business and depended on the "repeat rate" to maximize his cash flow.

He found that if he clear-rinsed the customers would sometimes postpone subsequent cleanings "because it still looked good". By using a detergent in-line in addition to prespray the carpet: 1. was easier to clean, 2. looked better that day, and 3. was nice and dirty by the next scheduled cleaning.
 

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Ah the "repeat rate"....yes that's the reason my son Jason quit using clear rinse in the mid 1990's. He took over the commercial recurring accounts of my business and depended on the "repeat rate" to maximize his cash flow.

He found that if he clear-rinsed the customers would sometimes postpone subsequent cleanings "because it still looked good". By using a detergent in-line in addition to prespray the carpet: 1. was easier to clean, 2. looked better that day, and 3. was nice and dirty by the next scheduled cleaning.
Residue is the ultimate “leave behind” for repeat business.
 
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Cleanworks

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Residue is the ultimate “leave behind” for repeat business.
It depends on what kind of residue. When you encap, you intentionally leave residue. It doesn't cause resoiling. When using an alkaline rinse after prespraying, you don't need a lot. Using a well formulated product at proper solution ratios will not leave any resoiling residue. Sometimes rinsing with just water will not remove all of your prespray. Especially if you use a d'limonene type of product. Each to his own. I know what works for me.
 
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Jimmy L

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Matt in the 70's and 80's they never had "Prespray"

Some idiot invented that term years later to sell more product.

Just like the moron who invented the terms

PRE vacuum
PRE inspect


Just sounds so stupit
 
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Hack Attack

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so many variables even with the same product

a heavy applier will obviously leave more residue vs light

someone rinsing at 350psi will have different results to someone at 500psi

etc etc etc
 

Radar Foster

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Matt in the 70's and 80's they never had "Prespray"

Some idiot invented that term years later to sell more product.

Just like the moron who invented the terms

PRE vacuum
PRE inspect


Just sounds so stupit
They didn't have cell phones either... its called innovation


You PREhistoric fossil
 

Cleanworks

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Have any of you guys ever put your rinse in at dilution into a drinking glass and let it evaporate to see what you get
Yes, many times since my first iicuc course. All kinds of different results. One of the reasons i use Procyon. It drys hard. You will notice white powder residue anywhere you have a drip or around the spout of your container. I have had other products react the same way, i just prefer procyon. Good test for any rinse.
 

The Lurk

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Some of you guys do take it to serious.
Viscose rug today. Code red and Deep Blue. 220 degree water.
3F8B5496-97D5-4856-89FB-7999A4020151.jpeg6FB947B5-11F2-4D06-B710-891BED2092B2.jpeg
 

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