OK good.. I'll go check some more..
My Apex will only run in the override position..
- Thread starter Able 1
- Start date
dgardner
Moderator
The tests I mentioned would show whether the relay was switching properly as well, not just whether it was wired correctly.....
dgardner
Moderator
Let's see if I understand:
Probe terminal 85 (wht/blk). it should be hot all the time. Wht/blk-hot
Disconnect the wire (gray/wht) that goes from the oil and temp switch to terminal 86. Make sure the wire to the relay is not touching ground and is not connected to either sensor. Probe terminal 87A (org/wht) - it should be hot. Probe terminal 87 (lt blu) - it should be dead. Blue - dead, Orange/wht-dead
Now temporarily ground terminal 86. You should hear the relay click. Terminal 87A should now be dead, and 87 should be hot. The check engine light should come on. With 86 (gry/wht) grounded both 87's have power..
Is that what you're seeing? both 87 and 87A are dead, then when you ground 86 they both go hot? That's an issue - not how the relay is supposed to work....
Probe terminal 85 (wht/blk). it should be hot all the time. Wht/blk-hot
Disconnect the wire (gray/wht) that goes from the oil and temp switch to terminal 86. Make sure the wire to the relay is not touching ground and is not connected to either sensor. Probe terminal 87A (org/wht) - it should be hot. Probe terminal 87 (lt blu) - it should be dead. Blue - dead, Orange/wht-dead
Now temporarily ground terminal 86. You should hear the relay click. Terminal 87A should now be dead, and 87 should be hot. The check engine light should come on. With 86 (gry/wht) grounded both 87's have power..
Is that what you're seeing? both 87 and 87A are dead, then when you ground 86 they both go hot? That's an issue - not how the relay is supposed to work....
dgardner
Moderator
Any chance of seeing a clear picture of the relay and relay base?
Relay part number?
Relay part number?
dgardner
Moderator
If my information is correct - that's not a standard relay - it's a turn signal flasher! This could be our issue!
dgardner
Moderator
The turn signal flasher uses the same base, but works differently. And if the load is too light, it thinks the lamps are burned out and doesn't flash, it just switches once. This could very well explain what we are seeing.
dgardner
Moderator
They fit the same base and look identical.
Relay:
Flasher:
Relay:
Flasher:
dgardner
Moderator
Grab something like this and I bet you will be good to go (hopefully no other issues!):
http://www.autozone.com/electrical-...e/duralast-relay-multiple-purpose/679595_0_0/
http://www.autozone.com/electrical-...e/duralast-relay-multiple-purpose/679595_0_0/
dgardner
Moderator
Yup - notice there are two 87's - and no 87A? same problem!
dgardner
Moderator
I mean - that one may or may not be a flasher, but energizes both terminals at the same time. This is causing your problem.
You need a relay that energizes one terminal when it is off, and a different terminal when it is on, thus the 87 and 87A designations.
You need a relay that energizes one terminal when it is off, and a different terminal when it is on, thus the 87 and 87A designations.
dgardner
Moderator
The little bar connecting the two 87's indicates that it's really the same terminal internally. Although it has 5 pins, it only has the function of a 4 pin relay.
Yes both are flashers, I took it up to auto zone and told them I need a replacement.. They gave me these.. Will replace and report back!
dgardner
Moderator
Excellent!
dgardner
Moderator
I was heading to bed and I suddenly had a thought - Your "relay" (flasher) drives the fuel pump and engine ignition coil pack. When the fuel pressure drops the fuel pump picks up and pumps a little. Most pumps pump in little 'spurts'. If it draws enough current each time, the flasher may "flash" briefly (and maybe intermittently) - cutting off power to the coils for a fraction of a second! No guarantees, but this could actually be the cause of your engine running rough.....
dgardner
Moderator
Do you have the oil pressure and temperature switches hooked back up? I'm going from memory (don't have the schematic on my phone ), but the lack of oil pressure when stopped should stop the pump from running. Then when you turn the override switch that should start the pump.
It was a stretch to hope the relay was the cause of the rough running, sorry bout that.....
It was a stretch to hope the relay was the cause of the rough running, sorry bout that.....
This is what I don't understand.. So both of these switches are supposed to be open, if that were the case why would you have to over ride it to start the engine? Because the override is just till the oil pressure gets to where it has to be.. I haven't put in a new oil pressure switch yet, I just got too busy..
Jim Martin
Supportive Member
do me a favor.........put everything back like it was....old relay and all...and take a jumper cable and hook it to the negative side of the battery and then CLEAN a spot on the engine and hook it on and then ramp up the engine...and see how it works...I would also recommend maybe checking the fuel pressure and see what it is ..
dgardner
Moderator
I can help you work through the rest of the electrical, but if you decide to have Jim help you with the rough-running engine we could come back to it later, just let me know...
Jim Martin
Supportive Member
wow......
I agree with the fuel pressure, I think that's a problem.. The fuel pump never seems to prime. It use to get quiet after it had a good prime now it's always pretty loud.. I'll try the ground strap tomorrow I can't run it now, I don't think the neighbors would dig it! I have a half day, I'll have some time..
dgardner
Moderator
I just didn't want to confuse the man by trying to do two things at once - I don't understand why that gets a wow?
