New TM Quick-Dry System Question

[Larry Cobb]

Brian;

The Airpath does a good job of decreasing the drying time,

but it is not the same as injecting hot air into the carpet fibers with a dedicated machine like the 360i.

The additional machine with a drying pass over the carpet does justify an additional charge.

The 360i & Airpath machine carried into the house, have similar weights.

Larry

 

[Dale]

Hi Larry (and other promoters of this system):

I'm all for getting the carpets dry ASAP. In fact, if I were to ignore the above mentioned problems, here's an added feature that I would probably have. Why not mount a copper coil under the 360i, bring in an extra solution line (to exit hot solution to the waste tank) and circulate hot solution in the copper on the face of the carpet? It will only mean bringing another hose in the house, and it would make the air much dryer/hotter.

Who knows, if we can get it hot enough, we might convince the consumers that we killed all the microbes?

But IMO, the better idea would be, after cleaning to heat the copper coil (under the 360i) on the face of the carpet, and vacuum it a 2nd time! No need for more vac hoses, and no blowing hot, humid, microbe filled air into the house. CFM air is CFM air, if it's going out, or in. So why not pull it out? If we think that the face fibers need a direct air hit, then also mount an impeller under the 360i and blow air with it.

Thx,
Dale

 

[Lee Stockwell]

Why not just mount a couple of 3 stage blowers directly onto the RX or a wand?

 

[Dolly Llama]

or velcro on some hair blow driers ......

let's just stick a mini TES unit in the van.
Seems it would be a lot less complicated (and modular) instead of that silly "system" ... :roll:

did you "really" think this thru????


.L.T.A.

 

[Bjorn]

"A more typical application of this system would be a cleaner doing high end work at say .40/sq ft.By offering Power-Dri for an additional .30/sq ft and obtaining .70/sq ft on a couple of houses a day that cleaner increases his income an extra $5000/mo.

Point is the low $2195 cost of adding this system to most TMs means a person would still do great even if their market only allowed an extra .15/sq ft for this service. Even at that rate a cleaner still makes about $180/hr for their time and still picks up another $2500/month every month they provide the service. In a warmer climate where cleaning goes on 12 months a year, that cleaner stills adds $30,000 extra to his income.Not bad for a one time investment of around $2000."

 

[Carpet Cleaning Fool]

Dang Meat... why don't you tell us how u really feel?

I got one for ya Meathead! I bet more gray matter went into the design of Cobbs Quick-Dry System than you've used in the past 5 years combined.

The Quick-Dry system is a new concept to me. I think anyone who brings inovative ideas should be shown a bit more respect.

You ever heard of "don't knock it till you try it"?

It may not be for everyone but I bet it dries carpets fast!

or velcro on some hair blow driers ......

let's just stick a mini TES unit in the van.
Seems it would be a lot less complicated (and modular) instead of that silly "system" ... :roll:

did you "really" think this thru????


.L.T.A.

 

[Carpet Cleaning Fool]

I wonder how well the Quick-Dry system works in high humidity regions. Seattle for instance

 

[Mikey P]

Dang Meat... why don't you tell us how u really feel?

I got one for ya Meathead! I bet more gray matter went into the design of Cobbs Quick-Dry System than you've used in the past 5 years combined.

The Quick-Dry system is a new concept to me. I think anyone who brings inovative ideas should be shown a bit more respect.

You ever heard of "don't knock it till you try it"?

It may not be for everyone but I bet it dries carpets fast!

I am amazed that this idiot can even inhale and exhale in the correct order.

 

[joeynbgky]

so i hear kens now banned from *** , whats really going on over there?

 

[Mikey P]

Rob the nut j :shock: b is going on over there Joey, haven't you heard?


He is the new age Hitler.

 

[Dolly Llama]

I got one for ya Meathead! I bet more gray matter went into the design of Cobbs Quick-Dry System than you've used in the past 5 years combined.

LOL..you still sore cause you got beat up about a POS V going to make you rich?
talk about grEy madder......

You ever heard of "don't knock it till you try it"?

It may not be for everyone but I bet it dries carpets fast!

damn..for someone that's been in biz so long, you sure seem like a wide eyed rookie.
and i was serious about the E-TES
It's already a proven, portable, self contained heated drying unit.
put a snorkel on the nose and run the hose if you want

it ain't all that hard to get carpets dry fast now with skill and fans.
and I'm calling bullsheet on their "10-15 minute" dry times.
10 to 15 minute "honest" dry times.... MAYBE on a 5 sf section for the guys that use pre-spray in sufficient quantity
Now add the rest of the 1000sf of carpet ...count up the "minutes" then


..L.T.A.

 

[joeynbgky]

I knew duane got banned, but what the heck, i wander if there gonna put *** up for sale on ebay?

 

[Hoody]

I got one for ya Meathead! I bet more gray matter went into the design of Cobbs Quick-Dry System than you've used in the past 5 years combined.

LOL..you still sore cause you got beat up about a POS V going to make you rich?
talk about grEy madder......

You ever heard of "don't knock it till you try it"?

It may not be for everyone but I bet it dries carpets fast!

damn..for someone that's been in biz so long, you sure seem like a wide eyed rookie.
and i was serious about the E-TES
It's already a proven, portable, self contained heated drying unit.
put a snorkel on the nose and run the hose if you want

it ain't all that hard to get carpets dry fast now with skill and fans.
and I'm calling bullsheet on their "10-15 minute" dry times.
10 to 15 minute "honest" dry times.... MAYBE on a 5 sf section for the guys that use pre-spray in sufficient quantity
Now add the rest of the 1000sf of carpet ...count up the "minutes" then


..L.T.A.

I would be more concerned about that quick of evaporation and no place for the moisture to go. Vapor pressure comes to mind, as well as the microbes.

 

[dgardner]

Well, I went over to Ken's website to read up on the system - at least to get the facts straight before I knock it. He has the same picture of a Dynachem machine as Larry posted. One of the things that popped out at me was the requirement for a separate high-temp hose for the drying step. A 50' length is apparently included with the kit, but if you need more (there is a drop-down to add a second length) - it is $500 :shock: as in 10 bucks a foot.

Pity the poor guy who wants to quick-dry 2nd floor rooms down a long driveway....

I couldn't find the system on Cobb's website to compare prices.

http://morecfm.com/store/product_info.php?products_id=244&osCsid=04db876fe9405e3af75abeb96d3a38c0

 

[Ryan]

I still don't see anyone carrying two hose reels. That alone makes it impractical.

Why not just post pad with a 175 or OP along with air movers until its dry. Shouldn't take much longer then 15 min after your done cleaning for it to be dry.

 

[Desk Jockey]

Even your make up air can be an issue in the spring/summer/Fall when outdoor allergens are high. Even if the heat truly kills the allergens, dead allergens are still allergenic.

I just don't really don't believe any of my customers are willing to pay me an additional .10 sq/ft for drying a carpet I just wet! :roll:

 

[Larry Cobb]

Doc;

How about a system for quicker drying of flooded carpets ?

Would your operation have any use for that concept ?

Hopefully ....,
restorers can see benefits also.

Larry

 

[dgardner]

Larry, a few questions:

The info I saw says you control the humidity of the drying air. How is this accomplished? Dessicant, mechanical refrigeration, etc.? Or are you simply lowering the RH by raising the temperature of the air?

The Cactus Control Box (the big silver box on the right in pic) cools the blower exhaust air from 240 deg to 200 deg according to the description. Does the discharge air from the blower always go through the box, or does it get switched during cleaning? Does the CCB go between the silencer and blower (or does it replace the silencer)?

Does the CCB do active temperature control, or is it a passive cooler? What is the temp output of the CCB be for, say, a cleaner in Minnesota during the winter vs. me here in Phoenix during a 120 deg day in the summer? Are their any safeties/provisions for limiting excessive temps?

Thanks.

 

[Desk Jockey]

For drying carpet and pad, no not really needing anything additional at this time.

Drying of carpet and pad are simple, in fact it often dries as a byproduct of drying structure. The largest potential for problems is in drying wall cavities, multiple layers of flooring and hardwood floors.

We already have a TES and E-TES units to assist with heat for those circumstances.

 

[The Great Oz]

Larry,
I can understand the value of this system if you don't want to use wide area air movement, such as in a 24 hour retail environment.

Not knocking the system, the back and forth is part of what any manufacturer needs to hear before going to market, and I would guess is why you posted. The Airpath may indeed be the same weight as a 360, but using it doesn't require the cost, space , or time investment of using this system. Maybe another cord and a piggyback heater on the Airpath gets you to insta-dry. (I want at least a free drink if you do this Keith... and not one with barbecue sauce in it!)

BTW: It isn't humid in Seattle when the temperature is high. Might be one of the most comfortable places in the country this time of year. Different story in the winter, which is why 50F feels cold here. The high-humidity winter is where adding a little temperature could really affect dry times.

 

[Nate The Great]

Makes me think of the Dry Fusion cleaning. I haven't seen or used this system, but it's along the same lines imho.

u]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3y-ZYSuHcx8u]

 

[Ryan]

Makes me think of the Dry Fusion cleaning. I haven't seen or used this system, but it's along the same lines imho.

v]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3y-ZYSuHcx8v]

The dry fusion is way cooler then this. It won't work in the US because the machine runs on a 220. Mick Ellis from *** has one and loves his, *** was going to be a distributor for them in the us if they ever get it converted to run on 110. I don't think I could buy one from *** but that system looks sweet.

 

[Nate The Great]

Makes me think of the Dry Fusion cleaning. I haven't seen or used this system, but it's along the same lines imho.

k]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3y-ZYSuHcx8k]

The dry fusion is way cooler then this. It won't work in the US because the machine runs on a 220. Mick Ellis from *** has one and loves his, *** was going to be a distributor for them in the us if they ever get it converted to run on 110. I don't think I could buy one from *** but that system looks sweet.

I don't view ***, so I'll take your word for it...

 

[Ryan]

Touche.

I still think Mick is a good guy though. I don't know why he associates himself with Supra Rob.

 

[TimP]

I wonder if anyone as actually built one of these machines and had it work. Because nobody has mentioned a successful trial.


Cause seriously how long would it take to dry a whole house of carpet using a rotary machine blowing hot air......I'm thinking way longer than the cleaning. So drying the carpet in this fashion will double the cost???? I don't see many paying more than double just to have their carpet dry 4 hours faster. Cause you know we aren't going to do something unless it makes us at least what we make cleaning carpet.

Not to mention in the manual for the rx-20 it says never to run the machine on dry carpet????

This idea is completely retarded. If they want the carpet dry buy enough airpaths and charge for it. And allow time in your schedule for it to dry. Ideally you could have another crew come behind and take care of the drying but the logistics of doing so would be a nightmare.

 

[kmdineen]

[quote="Carpet Cleaning Fool":37yzzpwh]

I got one for ya Meathead! I bet more gray matter went into the design of Cobbs Quick-Dry System than you've used in the past 5 years combined.

LOL..you still sore cause you got beat up about a POS V going to make you rich?
talk about grEy madder......

You ever heard of "don't knock it till you try it"?

It may not be for everyone but I bet it dries carpets fast!

damn..for someone that's been in biz so long, you sure seem like a wide eyed rookie.
and i was serious about the E-TES
It's already a proven, portable, self contained heated drying unit.
put a snorkel on the nose and run the hose if you want

it ain't all that hard to get carpets dry fast now with skill and fans.
and I'm calling bullsheet on their "10-15 minute" dry times.
10 to 15 minute "honest" dry times.... MAYBE on a 5 sf section for the guys that use pre-spray in sufficient quantity
Now add the rest of the 1000sf of carpet ...count up the "minutes" then


..L.T.A.

I would be more concerned about that quick of evaporation and no place for the moisture to go. Vapor pressure comes to mind, as well as the microbes.[/quote:37yzzpwh]


Steven thinks like a water damage guy!
1) Clean the carpet as you would normally with this machine.Make sure you follow the extraction with dry passes to remove as much water as possible. You are trying to acheive a 90% extraction rate whenever possible. This means that is you used 10 gallons to clean a 150 sq ft area, no more than 1 gallon should be left to evaporate out via the Power-Dri Process.

Is that extra gallon of water a lot of additional moisture vapor to add to the air in a 150 ft2 room?

150 ft2 x 8' ceilings =1200 cubic feet
14 cubic feet of air = 1 lb of air = 7000 grains
1200/14=85.71 lbs of air in that room
(estimate) temperature 75 degrees
relative humidity 46
grains of moisture per pound of air 60
85.71 lbs of air x 60 grains of moisture per pound =5142.6 grains of moisture in the room
5142.6 / 7000 = 0.734 lbs of moisture
1 lbs of water = 8.34 gallons
0.734 lbs of moisture / 8.34 gallons per pound = 0.088 gallons of moisture (water vapor) in the air of the room before using the Power-Dri Process.
1.088 gallons of water vapor in the air after using the Power-Dri Process.
That is a significant increase.

 

[dgardner]

Is that extra gallon of water a lot of additional moisture vapor to add to the air in a 150 ft2 room?

150 ft2 x 8' ceilings =1200 cubic feet
14 cubic feet of air = 1 lb of air = 7000 grains
1200/14=85.71 lbs of air in that room
(estimate) temperature 75 degrees
relative humidity 46
grains of moisture per pound of air 60
85.71 lbs of air x 60 grains of moisture per pound =5142.6 grains of moisture in the room
5142.6 / 7000 = 0.734 lbs of moisture
1 lbs of water = 8.34 gallons A typo I'm sure - it's actually the other way 'round
0.734 lbs of moisture / 8.34 gallons per pound = 0.088 gallons of moisture (water vapor) in the air of the room before using the Power-Dri Process.
1.088 gallons of water vapor in the air after using the Power-Dri Process.
That is a significant increase.

Kevin, aside from the typo above, your scenario has a few inaccuracies. I don’t really think this power dry system is practical, but think this out.

First of all – there could not, by definition, be 1.088 gallons of water vapor in the air. Even if the drying process raised the sensible temperature to, say, 85 deg, the volume of air in the room would reach saturation at about 185 grains per pound, and your 1.088 gallons of water works out to about 740 grains per pound.

Second, I assume the power dry hose (supplying heated air) is running in through the door like usual, and it’s pumping 200-300 cfm of air into the house. There is surely a fairly large opening above the hose, so we have to assume there is nearly the same outflow of exhaust air during the process. This air exchange will make a significant impact on ambient conditions in the room – agreed?

Next, could we assume the AC is running during and/or after the job? Likely it will dehumidify at least some of the moisture out of the airstream. How much? No way to tell, really.

Last, consider if the room were cleaned without using the drying process. After the job we just shut the door and leave. Now the 1 gallon of moisture still has to evaporate and go somewhere, but there is no longer an air exchange going on from the dryer. My point is, will the power dry system cause ambient conditions to be better, or worse than this scenario? I don’t know, but it seems to me not to be nearly the problem you suggest.

I still don’t think the system is worth the hassle, and it may indeed cause problems. I’m just trying to look at the facts realistically.

I am not a WDR guy, but I did stay at a Holiday Inn last night…

 

[Desk Jockey]

The system introduces heat but does not remove it? I thought Ken said it extracted it out?

 

[dgardner]

If I understand the system it draws air from inside the van, heats it up with the blower, and runs heated air from the blower through the high temp hose and OUT the rotary machine's glides, injecting it into the carpet. There is no extraction or powered exhaust during the drying phase afaik.

 

[Desk Jockey]

:shock: Chit!