So I cleaned our own carpets

[SamIam]

Ok boys if you've ever starved a pump???

You know what it feels like let alone you'll no longer have 20 flow. Cavitating, vapor lock all have a specific feeling at the wand.

 

[steve_64]

Zee, we can't control what happens when we leave a job. Home owners turn off fans and create conditions not suited for drying.

I was working cheap and tried offering faster dry times as an add on. Id leeave fans and return next day to retrieve them and pick up blocks and reeset furniture.
Nobody wanted it for an extra twenty five bucks.

I have raised my prices and with my WM1200 im getting wAY better dry times now. But nobody seems to care.

 

[Nate The Great]

Zee, we can't control what happens when we leave a job. Home owners turn off fans and create conditions not suited for drying.

I was working cheap and tried offering faster dry times as an add on. Id leeave fans and return next day to retrieve them and pick up blocks and reeset furniture.
Nobody wanted it for an extra twenty five bucks.

I have raised my prices and with my WM1200 im getting wAY better dry times now. But nobody seems to care.

People do care more than you think.... I bet your repeat and referrals will actually exist now.......

Luv ya Stevie! No homo.........

 

[Zee]

Most all your customers will be centered around that one question: how long will it take to dry?

They don't know what else to ask other than that and "how much will it be?"

It is very important to most people whether you realize it or not.

I make it a point to do as best as I can to achieve the quickest drying.

 

[BIG WOOD]

It's not a matter of liking it or not, if your are exceeding the capacity of your pump, you may want to downsize to your max capacity. When you are beside your truck, look at your pressure gauge and trigger the wand. Your gauge will drop to the pressure that the pump can actually provide. Adjust the regulator to that pressure so that you are not seeing a large drop. A drop of up 50 psi is normal

My pressure is set at 500 with my wand at 9.5flow, and when I pull the trigger, it drops to 400. Does that mean I'm cleaning at 400psi?

 

[Cleanworks]

Yes. I you want more pressure, you will have to go to a smaller jet size. 400 psi with a 9.5 isn't bad. I usually don't go past a 6 flow and i keep my pressure at 450-500psi

 

[BIG WOOD]

Yes. I you want more pressure, you will have to go to a smaller jet size. 400 psi with a 9.5 isn't bad. I usually don't go past a 6 flow and i keep my pressure at 450-500psi

The reason I went to 9.5 flow, is because I'm using a 5jet wand, and I'm not too fond of #1.5 jets. They like to clog a lot easier than #2 jets. So I put #2 jets on 4 of them, and left the 1.5 in the middle.

The wand was originally 7.5 flow

 

[Cleanworks]

The jets won't clog if you put a strainer on them. I use tee-jets with a strainer and clean them once every couple of weels.

 

[steve_64]

I know people care about dry times. Just seams they care more about price than a few extra hours of inconvenience.

But im charging more upfront now to help cover the cost of better drying and most of my customers arent flinching at the increase.

I guess it could be the approach.

 

[dgardner]

According the the Pumptec nozzle performance chart, it you are using a 20 flow at 500 psi, you are putting out 7.07 gpm.

Absolutely true - IF your 500 psi is measured at the jet. Trouble is, the psi is measured at the machine. The pressure at the jet is nowhere near 500 in this scenario, much closer to 100.

If your pump is not capable of that performance, it is probably cavitating and damaging the pump.

Cavitation is caused by insufficient head pressure at the inlet - starving the pump, not low outlet pressure.

It doesn't matter what the hose size, it still has to be compressed to come out the nozzles. If you used 3/8 hose, it would still be the same as 1/4 inch.

Not so - as the water flows it creates friction losses and the resulting pressure drop. Smaller hose has greater pressure drop. Hose size (and length) makes a HUGE difference in the end pressure at the jet, and the resulting flow.

It's not a matter of liking it or not, if your are exceeding the capacity of your pump, you may want to downsize to your max capacity.

Not really "exceeding the pump's capacity" per se. A 4 gpm pump won't ever put out more than 4 gpm. If your jetting is big enough, the pressure may go down, but no harm to the pump. you'll get less impact at the fiber, but many folks don't mind (or even like) a lower impact spray pattern. A pump's capacity is exceeded when your jetting and pressure regulator are set such that you exceed the pump's pressure rating.

I posted a jet flow chart here several years ago that approximates jet flow at the end of 100' of 1/4" hose, I'll see if I can find it.

Edit: Found it:

http://www.mikeysboard.com/threads/boring-flow-techie-stuff.253056/

 

[Cleanworks]

Dan, you are missing the point. If your outlet is more than your incoming water flow, it can cause starvation and cavitation. For example your water in is 5 gpm, your pump is capable of 3.5 gpm but your water out is 7 gpm. You build up your static pressure to 500 psi at the truck but when you pull the trigger, it drops to 100 psi. I have always been told that this will cause cavitation.
When I say the hose size doesn't matter, I mean if your are exceeding your pumps gpm. Yes, larger hoses have more capacity and less resistance

 

[dgardner]

For example your water in is 5 gpm, your pump is capable of 3.5 gpm but your water out is 7 gpm.

It's the pump that moves the water, not the other way around. If the pump is rated at 3.5 gpm (assuming it is being run at design speed) it pulls 3.5 gpm from the water box or faucet and pushes 3.5 gpm into its outlet. If the hose and jetting are too restrictive to accept 3.5 gpm, then the pressure builds until the regulator opens and bypasses some of the water. Thus the flow into (and out of) the solution hose would be 3.5 gpm or less under any condition. These pumps are positive displacement and water is incompressible, so the flows must add up to 3.5. For the example pump - 3.5 in, 3.5 out, and if, say, 2 gpm is flowing in the solution hose then 1.5 must flow into the reg bypass. At no point could there be more than 3.5 total flow.

If the hose and jetting are less restrictive, then the pressure drops, the reg eventually stops bypassing water but the pump still moves 3.5 gpm, just like clockwork. At some point all the flow is going into the hose and none out of the bypass.

How about a mental exercise? Think of a block of wood with a hole drilled in it. Insert a long solid steel bar all the way through the hole. Now push the bar in one inch. Where the bar exits the hole, how much did the bar move? One inch, obviously. Can you think of a situation where you would push the bar in an inch and two inches of the bar would come out the other side? Of course not. How about pushing the steel bar in an inch and only a half inch comes out? Not going to happen. Well, just like solid steel, the water doesn't stretch or compress. If the pump pulls in a gallon of water then it puts out a gallon, and that gallon has to go somewhere. If only half of the gallon goes into the hose then the other half has to go somewhere - in this case it goes into the regulator bypass line, but the total has to be a gallon.

Now imagine that I push real hard on the bar as it comes out the other side. Again, move the bar an inch toward me as I push. how much of the bar comes out? Still an inch, it's just harder to move. So as the pressure in the solution system rises, it gets harder for the pump to move (pressure rises), but the total flow does not change. 3.5 is 3.5.

So,

If your outlet is more than your incoming water flow

is physically not possible. It's like saying "if I push the steel bar in an inch and two inches come out of the other side".

 

[Cleanworks]

Dan, it is the sudden drop in pressure that causes cavitation. Let's say you have a 500 psi portable that gets you 500 psi on a 2 flow wand. You hook up a 4 flow wand and although your pressure gauge reads 500 psi at the machine, when you pull the trigger, you get a burst of pressure, then it drops to 100 psi. That sudden burst and pressure drop can cause cavitation

 

[dgardner]

when you pull the trigger, you get a burst of pressure

Not true, if you think about it. The pressure is highest before you key the wand, and when you pull the trigger you get a sudden drop in pressure as measured at the pump outlet, not a burst of pressure. That's really irrelevant though, because cavitation isn't caused by a drop in pressure at the pump outlet, it's caused by too low a pressure at the pump inlet. If the pump is rated 3.5 gpm, then it's pumping 3.5 gpm whether the wand is keyed or not. When the wand isn't keyed the 3.5 gpm is still flowing, its just all going through the bypass. When you key the wand then some (or all) of the 3.5 gpm starts to flow in the solution hose, but the same 3.5 gpm is still flowing into the pump inlet - the inlet conditions don't change. So if the pump wasn't cavitating when the wand isn't keyed then it won't cavitate when it is keyed, because the inlet conditions don't change.

 

[Cleanworks]

The burst of pressure is at your wand, followed by the drop in pressure because of the excessive gpm. Yes, the pump doesn't change pressure and gpm but if you have an excessively large drop in pressure every time you trigger on and off, you will damage your pump.

 

[BIG WOOD]

The pressure argument...

 

[Jack Zipper Zerkie]

Iv'e been under pressure for the past 50 yrs of marriage and yes it's CONSTANT, but that's love. And yes I control my own regulator valve. jz.

 

[dgardner]

 

[Nate The Great]

 

[SamIam]

I see what Dan is saying the pump usually starves when there's a kink in the hose or water flow into the pump is cut off.

If the you have sufficient water inlet say 10 gpm

Your 500 psi 20 flow wand will never exceed the pump out out of say 3.5 gpm so even in theory if a pump could put out 7 gpm and meet all the flow Zee the carpet bath boy thinks he hosing a carpet with.

In fact he's only putting out 3.5 Gpm without a lot of impact because ATM his 500 Psi is down to 100 psi and I can piss harder then that.

 

[ruff]

Somehow, in all this "starved pressure" argument the point of Zee's misdeed is being completely lost.
He's cleaning his own carpets and setting a baaaaaaaaaaad example. Bad Zee.
Pretty soon all our wives will want it done and there will be no safe zone left for us, even at our own homes.

We need an official denial from Zee about it. Personally I am convinced he's been misquoted, or at least misunderstood.

Zee?

 

[SamIam]

Well ya there's that one bad hat Harry.

 

[Greg Cole]

I know Cole tucked tail out of that business But he left a lot of us with that impression that always calls for remembrance...

LOL! marketing is just that. Marketing. Apparently I made an impression....
Two years is a VERY long time..... Rest asssured you guys will like some of the stuff I have cooking....

 

[Greg Cole]

View attachment 15453
This is the type of loop carpet we have....and it keeps coming back to me how some of the companies out there only clean these carpets with bonnets and claim they can't be steam cleaned. Right Cole?
Rolling eyes...

You never got it did you? I had burger flippers... I had them encapsulating as to avoid PH burns. Of course I sold it was it was absolutely necessary... I came up with the idea in the early 2000's and confused the entire market here in Atlanta. Guys trying to argue against my hundreds of thousands of fliers stating that you HAD to do it... It's called a disrupter.... ZERO-Rez does it NOW- claiming that EVERYONE else leaves a residue. Go fight that fight instead of complaining about an ancient marketing campaign of a long dead company? lol Clearly you need better things to do?