Ok I gotcha, I think I was confused for a sec.. so your skimming over the grout with your grout bond additive, added to grout
Super Grout Additive to the rescue
- Thread starter Mikey P
- Start date
Jason Pettinato
Member
@Acp we are using Super Grout Additive®. Watch those YouTube vids for more info on mixing and applying.
Mikey P
Administrator
Failed epoxy granite counter joints?
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Member
Mike,
According to MIA. -no
Epoxy is not used, polyester typically is
Problem with true2part epoxy , bond can be 2 strong, and movement can cause slab crack.
According to MIA. -no
Epoxy is not used, polyester typically is
Problem with true2part epoxy , bond can be 2 strong, and movement can cause slab crack.
Yeah i do the polishing already for the hard stain removal. I use oneRestore first, if that doesn't work, i break out the makita. I do those things but i focus cleaning more i do restorative..thats what i am trying to get my wife on it..she good at it
Jason Pettinato
Member
I have never used oneRestore. how does it work for shower restoration work?
@Jason Pettinato in the videos I got the impression super grout additive was a substitute for silicone caulking on the joints, but you mean your using to skim over grout in shower pans?
The other video it looked like grout bond was used for re grouting the shower completely.
The other video it looked like grout bond was used for re grouting the shower completely.
Jason Pettinato
Member
ok thanks for clarifying
Mikey P
Administrator
Jason my guys tried filling holes left over on a tub enclosure wall from the mollies.
They could not get your product level with the tile surface, it sort of dimple'd in..
Any tricks?
They could not get your product level with the tile surface, it sort of dimple'd in..
Any tricks?
Jason Pettinato
Member
@Mikey P , here’s a tip. Pack those holes first with a thick mix of grout/water as a backer, then mix Super Grout Additive® as thick as possible for the final layer. Have your guys apply more epoxy on this one.
Same idea with any repair area that have large gaps.
Jason Pettinato
Member
Keep bringing those questions. I’ve been using this stuff for years. Happy to share what my clients and myself have learned. You will be old hat in no time!
1 more question for ya. Say you walk into a new job and your going to skim coat the shower pan or an area and want to match it to the current grout on the walls or theres a color in general you need to match elseware in the bathroom.. what would be your technique for matching the color perfectly? any tricks you can share?
Jason Pettinato
Member
@Acp , get yourself a grout color chart and find the closest color. @Caulkmaster will mix different colors for custom matching. I always save any remaining epoxy as a sample and label them for future reference. Tip: let the remaining epoxy dry in the syringe overnight then remove it for a perfect cylinder core sample like in the pic.
Check it out. I used it for window cleaning too.
http://www.eacochem.com/ProductDetails/productDetails_OneRestore.htm
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Mike..knife set polyester a better option for hole like that...your not going to get a product rhst has sand in it to towel flush and smooth,
Home Depot, CBP, no longer sell ssanded, unsanded grouts....
The movement is to sell 1 type that replaced both.. its considerably more. However color consists t and don’t need to seal.... use hydrolic cements- cure fast ..
Jason, have you tried with the new type grouts?
Mixing may even be easier,
Home Depot, CBP, no longer sell ssanded, unsanded grouts....
The movement is to sell 1 type that replaced both.. its considerably more. However color consists t and don’t need to seal.... use hydrolic cements- cure fast ..
Jason, have you tried with the new type grouts?
Mixing may even be easier,
Jason Pettinato
Member
I’m not a slab guy but I agree that there are polyester products for seams that are better suited.
As for Home Depot no longer selling Custom Building Products Polyblend grout, sanded and unsanded, that is not true! Cement based grout is considered the staple of all grouts and the discontinuation of such is highly unlikely.
Sealing grout is debatable at best. I know for a fact that it serves zero protection against water resistance let alone water proofing. No sealer that I’m aware of will waterproof grout.
Home Depot has been in the direction of selling grouts that claim to outperform regular grout for years. They used to sell some good Epoxy but the consumers didn’t bite so they moved to that fusion crap which is acrylic garbage and expensive. Don’t use that stuff for shower floors, many pros have chimed in on forums about some nightmares.
Final note: please DO NOT USE anything other than regular cement based grout such as Custom Building Products Polyblend, Mapei Keracolor, or equivalent. It was designed specifically for the tried and true stuff.
Thank you!
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You must mis read my post Jason....it’s a hydrolic based cement.. what we used to use in my former life for under water repairs on concrete pipes.
Think of it as grout on steroids.
And yes-FACT- our local HD stores only sell this as your only option for cementitious based grout. I’m sure you still go to website and get it....
Simple economics... and long overdue.....why carry 2 of every color...
The Mapei. Version of the same (FX) however will scratch polished TML
Think of it as grout on steroids.
And yes-FACT- our local HD stores only sell this as your only option for cementitious based grout. I’m sure you still go to website and get it....
Simple economics... and long overdue.....why carry 2 of every color...
The Mapei. Version of the same (FX) however will scratch polished TML
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Jason Pettinato
Member
Interesting, all the Home Depots in my area haven't changed over. I still see Polyblend in the left side of the pic you provided. both sanded and unsanded. I can understand why they are doing it to simplify the grout selection process. Maybe I'll have my chemist do some testing with this stuff out of curiosity. Thanks for sharing!
Jason Pettinato
Member
It may be stronger than typical cement based grout, but I wouldn't use it to replace weak areas like corners, it will still crack because it's not as strong as epoxy. I will buy some Prism and mix a bit of it into a golf ball shape and do the same with the SGA and see which one explodes first when thrown down to the ground. It's not water resistant or water proof and any sealer out there will not make it waterproof. It's a marketing deal for the consumer, not really the ultimate in grout in my opinion.
I will say that our epoxy is not designed for vertical wall applications because it will sag although it works well at vertical corners. But really though, the old school grout works just fine in showers, even without sealers. It's always the shower floor and curb that get hammered and that's where we target our product because it's just at waterproof as tile so it gives an additional layer of protection against leaking and keeps the water on top of the floor which is huge. Prism can't do that, even if sealed.
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Be aware. Being waterproof is a double edge sword..
That’s why caulk fails. Not because it is no longer sealing water out, however because it is sealing water in. This causes it to mold/mildew from the inside out. (Baring poor install). And this becomes unsightly.
Have you ever removed the caulking and have water spit out like you just cut a garden hose?
That’s all the trapped water in the wall. And most water pan only go up 12-18”. After that it overflows into the wall cavity.
Grout will allow trapped water to vapor out.
Something to think about
That’s why caulk fails. Not because it is no longer sealing water out, however because it is sealing water in. This causes it to mold/mildew from the inside out. (Baring poor install). And this becomes unsightly.
Have you ever removed the caulking and have water spit out like you just cut a garden hose?
That’s all the trapped water in the wall. And most water pan only go up 12-18”. After that it overflows into the wall cavity.
Grout will allow trapped water to vapor out.
Something to think about
Jason Pettinato
Member
1. If you take a cement based grout, sealed or unsealed because sealing does zero for water proofing, then apply caulk around the perimeter, over a period of time the grout will draw the water under the tile and the pan becomes water logged. Yes, the caulk or silicone gets hammered from underneath and then turns black and has to be replaced.
2. It's very common for water to spit out once the caulk has been removed on a cement based grouted floor.
3. water to crawl up a wall 12"-18" and find it's way to crawl into the wall cavity has never been witnessed in my 30 years of ripping showers out. I have seen tub showers that were tiled over green board or the drywall that is designed to be used in wet areas which is a joke because it doesn't work with mastic, wick water 4' off the ground.
4. Allowing grout to vapor out is not realistic because those pans never dry out so it's a constant battle on a shower that is used on a daily basis. I've ripped out a great number of showers that had not been used in months only to see the shower floor mortar bed saturated. Those weep holes don't work either. Mineral deposits can easily clog those. The idea sounds good on paper but doesn't work in the real world.
5. Using epoxy grout on a new shower floor solves everything and eliminates shitty products like silicone and caulk.
6. Any work over a saturated shower floor needs to be disclosed to customer saying that there is trapped water/moisture before you started the job because cement based grouts absorb water no matter how you slice it. I'll go one step further and say if you apply a skim coat of epoxy over a cement grout, it's not going to trap more water. At this point, there's too much water already. All your doing is keeping more water from going under the tile. It's impossible to dry out a water logged shower floor without ripping everything out to the studs and floor.
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It seems your 30 years has entrenched your shower beliefs.
Jason Pettinato
Member
I only post what I have personally experienced.
Are you or have you been a licensed tile or general contractor, been employed as a rep in the tile industry, or member of TCNA? Where are you getting your information?
Steve Lawrence
Member
Can't believe I watched most of this and I'm not even a tub guy!
Jason Pettinato
Member
"How does SGA work"?
It just does!
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Member
Same here.
March will put me at 30 years. And I have 2 year before that on the plumbing side, installing pre tile.
Most of my experience is repairing what tile contractors installed. Also johns bridge is great asset and have read his ebook, DG, and others. I am a sponge, and am not locked into what worked 10 years if new technology provides better.
Dosnt TCNA recommend caulk for change of planes in shower?
In my opinion,the Kerdi system only way to go.
Here an excerpt from the owner of color clad, his name escapes me, on the subject
Grout at the floor to wall joint in a shower is the best choice on a properly constructed tiled shower pan. Properly constructed is a big " if " of course. We have run into so many good ones that were butchered by a big bead of caulk that we have lost count. Sometimes when we cut the caulk out it will gush with water as though it were a cut garden hose, or even worse the water would back up so much in the wall it will overflow the rubber/lead pan and leak into the room below.
It is important to understand the difference between a true shower pan and a shower base. A one piece plastic base is just a really shallow bathtub and should be perimeter caulked. They have only a single level drain and there will be movement at the wall due to weight loading and thermal expansion differences.
If the floor is tiled, you must have a second level drain below the level of the tile because no grout is waterproof, ever, even epoxy. The construction is designed to function properly even if you left all the grout out. Building a rubber dam at the floor to wall junction provides no benefit to keeping the second level dry when all of the grout lines on the floor are already weeping water.
A little water will usually get past the grout on the walls, either through cracks, pinholes or penetrations. The wall behind the tile only needs to be water resistant enough to let gravity take the water down to the pan. Caulking the vertical joints is recommended as there is likely no caulk/seal at the corners of the backer board.
The pan extends up behind the whole wall at least to the height of the curb, usually about 8 inches or so. While the tile runs right to the floor, the board behind usually stops a little higher. Packing that gap with rubber often creates a sealed channel between the wall tile and the vertical part of the pan that collects water. Sanded grout gives the water a fighting chance to fall to the drain. If you are lucky it may weep out of the vertical grout joints faster than it can back up over the pan.
If water runs out when you cut into the old caulk you are draining that 8 inch channel, not the whole wall. Any water behind the tile above 8 inches already overflowed the pan.
March will put me at 30 years. And I have 2 year before that on the plumbing side, installing pre tile.
Most of my experience is repairing what tile contractors installed. Also johns bridge is great asset and have read his ebook, DG, and others. I am a sponge, and am not locked into what worked 10 years if new technology provides better.
Dosnt TCNA recommend caulk for change of planes in shower?
In my opinion,the Kerdi system only way to go.
Here an excerpt from the owner of color clad, his name escapes me, on the subject
Grout at the floor to wall joint in a shower is the best choice on a properly constructed tiled shower pan. Properly constructed is a big " if " of course. We have run into so many good ones that were butchered by a big bead of caulk that we have lost count. Sometimes when we cut the caulk out it will gush with water as though it were a cut garden hose, or even worse the water would back up so much in the wall it will overflow the rubber/lead pan and leak into the room below.
It is important to understand the difference between a true shower pan and a shower base. A one piece plastic base is just a really shallow bathtub and should be perimeter caulked. They have only a single level drain and there will be movement at the wall due to weight loading and thermal expansion differences.
If the floor is tiled, you must have a second level drain below the level of the tile because no grout is waterproof, ever, even epoxy. The construction is designed to function properly even if you left all the grout out. Building a rubber dam at the floor to wall junction provides no benefit to keeping the second level dry when all of the grout lines on the floor are already weeping water.
A little water will usually get past the grout on the walls, either through cracks, pinholes or penetrations. The wall behind the tile only needs to be water resistant enough to let gravity take the water down to the pan. Caulking the vertical joints is recommended as there is likely no caulk/seal at the corners of the backer board.
The pan extends up behind the whole wall at least to the height of the curb, usually about 8 inches or so. While the tile runs right to the floor, the board behind usually stops a little higher. Packing that gap with rubber often creates a sealed channel between the wall tile and the vertical part of the pan that collects water. Sanded grout gives the water a fighting chance to fall to the drain. If you are lucky it may weep out of the vertical grout joints faster than it can back up over the pan.
If water runs out when you cut into the old caulk you are draining that 8 inch channel, not the whole wall. Any water behind the tile above 8 inches already overflowed the pan.
Jason Pettinato
Member
ill touch on your comments, but you didn’t answer my question.
Are you currently licensed as a Tile contractor in your state? Florida?
Are you currently licensed as a Tile contractor in your state? Florida?
Jason Pettinato
Member
mix any color grout for color matching.
Industry standards are outdated and have been for several years. It's a fact and the pro's that run tile/grout restoration businesses no longer have to use low quality products that typically result in call backs.
Here's what the TCNA recommends for change of plane, right out of the handbook. Industry standard but certainly not Industry wide!
Read the fine print on 100% silicone. So misleading it should be against the law. How do these big companies getaway with it? Homeowners, DIY'ers, and pro's know what happens with this stuff in wet areas. Should be no surprise.
Industry standards are outdated and have been for several years. It's a fact and the pro's that run tile/grout restoration businesses no longer have to use low quality products that typically result in call backs.
Here's what the TCNA recommends for change of plane, right out of the handbook. Industry standard but certainly not Industry wide!
Read the fine print on 100% silicone. So misleading it should be against the law. How do these big companies getaway with it? Homeowners, DIY'ers, and pro's know what happens with this stuff in wet areas. Should be no surprise.
