Super Grout Additive to the rescue

Two of these, some tile floors, kitchen counters and coming back to install Super Grout in the floor to tub joint.

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You shower guys should try this stuff if you havent yet..

 

Comments

#51
You must mis read my post Jason....it’s a hydrolic based cement.. what we used to use in my former life for under water repairs on concrete pipes.

Think of it as grout on steroids.

And yes-FACT- our local HD stores only sell this as your only option for cementitious based grout. I’m sure you still go to website and get it....

Simple economics... and long overdue.....why carry 2 of every color...

The Mapei. Version of the same (FX) however will scratch polished TML
It may be stronger than typical cement based grout, but I wouldn't use it to replace weak areas like corners, it will still crack because it's not as strong as epoxy. I will buy some Prism and mix a bit of it into a golf ball shape and do the same with the SGA and see which one explodes first when thrown down to the ground. It's not water resistant or water proof and any sealer out there will not make it waterproof. It's a marketing deal for the consumer, not really the ultimate in grout in my opinion.
I will say that our epoxy is not designed for vertical wall applications because it will sag although it works well at vertical corners. But really though, the old school grout works just fine in showers, even without sealers. It's always the shower floor and curb that get hammered and that's where we target our product because it's just at waterproof as tile so it gives an additional layer of protection against leaking and keeps the water on top of the floor which is huge. Prism can't do that, even if sealed.
 
#52
Be aware. Being waterproof is a double edge sword..
That’s why caulk fails. Not because it is no longer sealing water out, however because it is sealing water in. This causes it to mold/mildew from the inside out. (Baring poor install). And this becomes unsightly.
Have you ever removed the caulking and have water spit out like you just cut a garden hose?
That’s all the trapped water in the wall. And most water pan only go up 12-18”. After that it overflows into the wall cavity.
Grout will allow trapped water to vapor out.

Something to think about
 
#53
Be aware. Being waterproof is a double edge sword..
That’s why caulk fails. Not because it is no longer sealing water out, however because it is sealing water in. This causes it to mold/mildew from the inside out. (Baring poor install). And this becomes unsightly.
Have you ever removed the caulking and have water spit out like you just cut a garden hose?
That’s all the trapped water in the wall. And most water pan only go up 12-18”. After that it overflows into the wall cavity.
Grout will allow trapped water to vapor out.

Something to think about
1. If you take a cement based grout, sealed or unsealed because sealing does zero for water proofing, then apply caulk around the perimeter, over a period of time the grout will draw the water under the tile and the pan becomes water logged. Yes, the caulk or silicone gets hammered from underneath and then turns black and has to be replaced.
2. It's very common for water to spit out once the caulk has been removed on a cement based grouted floor.
3. water to crawl up a wall 12"-18" and find it's way to crawl into the wall cavity has never been witnessed in my 30 years of ripping showers out. I have seen tub showers that were tiled over green board or the drywall that is designed to be used in wet areas which is a joke because it doesn't work with mastic, wick water 4' off the ground.
4. Allowing grout to vapor out is not realistic because those pans never dry out so it's a constant battle on a shower that is used on a daily basis. I've ripped out a great number of showers that had not been used in months only to see the shower floor mortar bed saturated. Those weep holes don't work either. Mineral deposits can easily clog those. The idea sounds good on paper but doesn't work in the real world.
5. Using epoxy grout on a new shower floor solves everything and eliminates shitty products like silicone and caulk.
6. Any work over a saturated shower floor needs to be disclosed to customer saying that there is trapped water/moisture before you started the job because cement based grouts absorb water no matter how you slice it. I'll go one step further and say if you apply a skim coat of epoxy over a cement grout, it's not going to trap more water. At this point, there's too much water already. All your doing is keeping more water from going under the tile. It's impossible to dry out a water logged shower floor without ripping everything out to the studs and floor.
 
#55
It seems your 30 years has entrenched your shower beliefs.
I only post what I have personally experienced.

Are you or have you been a licensed tile or general contractor, been employed as a rep in the tile industry, or member of TCNA? Where are you getting your information?
 
#58
Same here.

March will put me at 30 years. And I have 2 year before that on the plumbing side, installing pre tile.

Most of my experience is repairing what tile contractors installed. Also johns bridge is great asset and have read his ebook, DG, and others. I am a sponge, and am not locked into what worked 10 years if new technology provides better.

Dosnt TCNA recommend caulk for change of planes in shower?


In my opinion,the Kerdi system only way to go.


Here an excerpt from the owner of color clad, his name escapes me, on the subject



Grout at the floor to wall joint in a shower is the best choice on a properly constructed tiled shower pan. Properly constructed is a big " if " of course. We have run into so many good ones that were butchered by a big bead of caulk that we have lost count. Sometimes when we cut the caulk out it will gush with water as though it were a cut garden hose, or even worse the water would back up so much in the wall it will overflow the rubber/lead pan and leak into the room below.

It is important to understand the difference between a true shower pan and a shower base. A one piece plastic base is just a really shallow bathtub and should be perimeter caulked. They have only a single level drain and there will be movement at the wall due to weight loading and thermal expansion differences.

If the floor is tiled, you must have a second level drain below the level of the tile because no grout is waterproof, ever, even epoxy. The construction is designed to function properly even if you left all the grout out. Building a rubber dam at the floor to wall junction provides no benefit to keeping the second level dry when all of the grout lines on the floor are already weeping water.

A little water will usually get past the grout on the walls, either through cracks, pinholes or penetrations. The wall behind the tile only needs to be water resistant enough to let gravity take the water down to the pan. Caulking the vertical joints is recommended as there is likely no caulk/seal at the corners of the backer board.

The pan extends up behind the whole wall at least to the height of the curb, usually about 8 inches or so. While the tile runs right to the floor, the board behind usually stops a little higher. Packing that gap with rubber often creates a sealed channel between the wall tile and the vertical part of the pan that collects water. Sanded grout gives the water a fighting chance to fall to the drain. If you are lucky it may weep out of the vertical grout joints faster than it can back up over the pan.

If water runs out when you cut into the old caulk you are draining that 8 inch channel, not the whole wall. Any water behind the tile above 8 inches already overflowed the pan.
 
#59
ill touch on your comments, but you didn’t answer my question.
Are you currently licensed as a Tile contractor in your state? Florida?
 
#60
mix any color grout for color matching.
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Industry standards are outdated and have been for several years. It's a fact and the pro's that run tile/grout restoration businesses no longer have to use low quality products that typically result in call backs.
Here's what the TCNA recommends for change of plane, right out of the handbook. Industry standard but certainly not Industry wide!

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Read the fine print on 100% silicone. So misleading it should be against the law. How do these big companies getaway with it? Homeowners, DIY'ers, and pro's know what happens with this stuff in wet areas. Should be no surprise.


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#61
To answer your question. There is no such thing as a liscence for a tile contractor in FL.

So no.


So, TCNA recommends caulk? Your answer was vague.
 

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#62
To answer your question. There is no such thing as a liscence for a tile contractor in FL.

So no.


So, TCNA recommends caulk? Your answer was vague.
Wow, ok
Why Florida doesn't require a license to install tile is beyond me. So does that mean any Joe off the street can simply open a tile installation business? That doesn't fly here over in California, anyone caught working without a contractor's license is fined, no warnings.

What's also interesting is how your business listing has you as "
Clean Image Of Orlando - Tile & Stone Contractor".
I would post a link but this is my 24thth post and apparently this board requires 25 before posting links. you can see the link in the pic.

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TCNA does require sealant for change of plane areas, I mentioned that before, scroll up and you'll see that I probably mentioned that a few times. It's no secret. Silicone happens to be one type of sealant, there are others and that information is available online to the general public via The TCNA website for those who would like more info that.

Yes, SGA has not been approved by the TCNA, nor is on our list of things to do. We, and what I mean by "We" is that the Tile/Grout restoration industry understands that those recommendations (as that is all it is, a recommendation by the TCNA) are outdated. Again, I'm not alone on this. I said it before and I'll say it again, there is a HUGE disconnect between the Tile installation industry and Tile/Grout restoration industry. The TCNA is centered around new installations which is the exact opposite of the restoration industry. Most contractors, or non contractors who install tile rarely ever see there work again. However, the restoration industry are those who actually see how these outdated methods are performing.

Why is it that I get phone calls everyday from individuals who want to know more about SGA because silicone doesn't work in wet areas. I'm talking homeowners, DIY'ers, Contractors, Non Contractors and Hotels. My Youtube channel has been a great resource for this common issue.

Now I'm sure you will have something to say about how SGA is not TCNA approved and that you live by the TCNA handbook because there's a reason why epoxy shouldn't be used at corners, but I just did that for you so no need to keep repeating this debate.

This product is not for you and that's ok, it's not for everyone so unless you plan on testing it for yourself, your wasting time commenting on why it's not for you. Cool, awesome, move on buddy.

Final note, you mentioned the John Bridge forum which raises my question. If Mr. John Bridge himself has a view on this very subject, would you second guess his professional opinion?
 
#63
What's also interesting is how your business listing has you as "
Clean Image Of Orlando - Tile & Stone Contractor".
I would post a link but this is my 24thth post and apparently this board requires 25 before posting links. you can see the link in the pic.
Let's not start doxing people..............

This product is not for you and that's ok, it's not for everyone so unless you plan on testing it for yourself, your wasting time commenting on why it's not for you. Cool, awesome, move on buddy.
or telling people what to comment on or you will be moving on



Lastly, contact Mike for our current advertising rates...........
 
#64
Let's not start doxing people..............



or telling people what to comment on or you will be moving on



Lastly, contact Mike for our current advertising rates...........
problem is that I know where this guy is going on this issue. I've dealt with it on other forums. He's posting information that is not true. Polyblend grout is available at Home Depots.


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There's no intention of replacing it with Prism grout. I messaged Custom Building Product directly through facebook messenger where they confirmed what I have been saying.

I respect other individual opinions but have no problem expressing my views and will continue to do so if need be. Were all big boys here so a little heated debate is good.

The only threats I see are from you telling me I'm moving on if I don't shape up. I'll do that for you.
 
#65
problem is that I know where this guy is going on this issue. I've dealt with it on other forums. He's posting information that is not true. Polyblend grout is available at Home Depots.


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There's no intention of replacing it with Prism grout. I messaged Custom Building Product directly through facebook messenger where they confirmed what I have been saying.

I respect other individual opinions but have no problem expressing my views and will continue to do so if need be. Were all big boys here so a little heated debate is good.

The only threats I see are from you telling me I'm moving on if I don't shape up. I'll do that for you.
I didn't say anything about threats. I said doxing and telling people what to comment on. No need to play internet sleuth on members or create forum conversation rules.

Also contact Mike about continuing to shill your product here.........
 
#66
Also contact Mike about continuing to shill your product here.........
Mikey started it. From the first post to the responses from Jason, this thread felt like an introduction to a new advertiser.

I agree that challenges to marketers need to be answered with reasonable answers; maybe something that wasn't clear to Jason at the outset.
 
#67
Mikey started it. From the first post to the responses from Jason, this thread felt like an introduction to a new advertiser.

I agree that challenges to marketers need to be answered with reasonable answers; maybe something that wasn't clear to Jason at the outset.
continuing
 
#70
Boy, some how I missed this.

In response to Jason
- I am a contractor according the definition:

—a person or company that undertakes a contract to provide materials or labor to perform a service or do a job.

And I am liscenced to perform these services.

I don’t know about that website you posted.... I challenge their “verifying” as those phone numbers are pretty old, 1is dead other not been actively used by me in over 15 years.



And maybe you or some stone installers in Cali can answer this, as I am curious. On MTL stone floor installs, with a butt install, 1/16”spacing, maximum allows tile lippage is 1/32”. So 1. So every floor installed meets these specs and basically there never is a need for grind in place. Or 2, customer dosnt pay if not within industry acceptable lippage... (this is what I have heard). Do you have to pull permits on every piece of tile installed?, and is there an inspector that inspects and approves the install?


Back to subject..

Here is the problem Jason, as a contractor, my concerns are your epoxy trapping water behind the tile. Or Any near waterproof “sealant” for that matter.

Whether it due to Florida shower construction, Florida hard water or other factors, cutting to remove perimeter caulk and having water flow out, and often 30 minutes latter it still flowing, tells me there is water in the wall cavity. This is why caulk mildews in first place. Now we’re going to replace the water proof silicone with your waterproof epoxy grout.

Do you not see the potential problems?


Impregnating sealers work well and have there place, however like you said, your not going to water proof the wall structure in a shower.


I find it kind of ignorant on your part to assume every shower is build like you build it.

What is your warranty on your product?
 
#73
1. This was introduced to me after I left the field full time. It was brought to my attention by Mike Holm (Caulkmaster) who is a longtime customer of mine. He is incredibly meticulous and detail oriented and so I trust him when he tells me a product works great. I contacted Jason and became a distributor approximately 10 months ago. My hands on experience with this product is limited to its application

2. I do have several customers that have outright replaced caulking and silicone with this and so far have had no issues.

3. The name of the owner/creator of ColorClad is Mike Skala. He passed away nearly two years ago and is no longer available to comment. I had many conversations with Mike about his product and other chemicals. He was an incredible wealth of knowledge and taught me many things. He was a true asset to the industry. With that being said, his opinion of grout being the best option around a shower floor perimeter only applies in certain regions

In CA, it is required by code with a new installation to use a flexible joint material, such as siliconized acrylic caulk, silicone, or a urethane material where the plane changes. So where the floor meets the curb riser, seat, wall, etc., you must, by code, use a flexible material. Being on one of the largest fault lines on the planet, I see why this is the code.

HOWEVER, just because something is a standard, or a code, doesn't necessarily mean it is the strongest or best option.

In my shower in my shop, the one that is used for training, was installed about 14 months ago. It cracked in the corners and around the floor after about 4-6 months. Non-sanded grout in the vertical joints, sanded grout around the floor perimeter. It was replaced with SGA and so far it has held up just fine. Obviously, this is a short amount of time to use as a gauge of durability and lifespan.

Some of you know my experience, some do not. While I am not a tile installation expert, by far, I have a lot of experience with all the steps, from concrete slab and studs to finished product and the restoration and repair of showers after the fact. So far, I have been impressed with SGA and I have no issues recommending it. Yes I am a distributor, but as most of you know, we offer a limited selection of each type of product so we only offer what I would consider the "best of the best."

SGA isn't for everyone. Some people will not agree with it's use, some people will love it and use it exclusively. Some people will use it sometimes. It doesn't matter, every product has fans and people that don't like it.

One of the HUGE benefits for me, is that it cures with a matte finish, like grout. It does not cure shiny like silicone or urethane. It is very strong. With a utility knife, you can cut out non-sanded grout. You cannot to the same with SGA mixed with the same non sanded grout.

Also, it cleans up with water. It's not as simple as wiping once or twice with a sponge, but the fact that it is water clean up is amazing.

One more thing, it doesn't alter the grout's color that much. It ends up a tad darker, but not so much that it's an issue.

If there is enough movement, SGA will crack, or possibly cause the stone tile to crack/break, but I would expect something like this to be a significant event, like an earthquake. I mean like 4.0+. We have earthquakes on a weekly basis here, 99% of them are not felt, but there is literally constant movement.

I am incredibly optimistic about this product and I think it will help a lot of people that install and service showers. If I was still in the field, with my limited experience with this product so far, I would have no issues offering a warranty
 
#74
One of the HUGE benefits for me, is that it cures with a matte finish, like grout. It does not cure shiny like silicone or urethane. It is very strong. With a utility knife, you can cut out non-sanded grout. You cannot to the same with SGA mixed with the same non sanded grout.

So if it were to fail and we had to remove it, how would we go about that?
 
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