The IICRC is finally listening.

[Mikey P]

Maybe we need to start at the begging and have Lee (and Jim) tell us just what exactly the IICRC is suppose to be doing for us under the original guidelines of the organization.

In other words what did the founders have in mind before the Dixie Mafia corrupted it?

Besides education and certification that is....

 

[Mikey P]

The heck with it.


lets just get the party started.


We have Lee's attention so lets hear it guys, what can the IICRC do for you?

 

[Guest]

I still haven't decided if I will send in my dues or not. I have a few problems with the way we are treated by their office and I've had so many problems for so long with their consumor part of their website! :x

I'll chime in later with more specifics.

 

[Lora Olson]

EDIT- I did it again this is JOHN logged in on Lora's Lap Top...

Ken brings up a good point about the money and I suggest an easy fix. If the IICRC truly dedicates itself to educating the consumer's around the country then every IICRC Member shoud be willing to kick down 50-100 extra a year. I don't know the membership numbers but I am sure $100 from at least 50% of the membership would be a pretty nice marketing budget and I personally would send at least $200 a year or more IF I saw the ads consistantly.

I have actually talk with a few local cleaners about going in on full page newspaper ads educating the general public about the IICRC and the differences Between Professinal Textile Restorer and a Rug Sucker. The problem I have run into is getting someone else to run with this Idea. I mean lots of guys like the Idea and say they would get in on it but no one wants to put the effort in to get it done. If the IICRC could come up with a full page newspaper Ad that we could add the names of the Local Certified Firms that would be wiling to pay to run the ad I am sure localy we have enough companies that would be willing to put up the money to run it weekly forever.

So there you go Lee. Come up with a Full Page Newspaper Ad that I can add the local certified firms comapany logos and numbers to and send it to me and I'll get it in the papers by the first of the year.

 

[Larry B]

I understand the concept of what you are wanting to do but do you think it will matter?

Consumers don't listen to the retail stores, manufacturers or installers about cleaning so why would they care about your TV add ?

In my opinion training is good and needed but to pay dues each year for nothing is like joining up with JP.


There is more training out their than just the IICRC and I for one don't see running no commercial about the little green logo going to change anything. Do you think for a second that the IICRC logo is going to say more to a customer than if a friend or family member tells them to call so & so because they are good?

No bigger than the IICRC is I for one dont see you guys having the money to take on a advertising campaign to change the minds of the American public.


Lets be completely honest here

How many of you have ever really and truly had a customer that gave a crap about your training or the IICRC ?

Do you think Bawbs Ghetto customer base cares about the IICRC?

With the economy the way its heading do you think a customer will pay more because they see IICRC TV commercials?


Again nothing bad about the IICRC or any other training program but I do think the TV & Radio advertising for something like this is a waste of dues paid to the organization.

 

[Desk Jockey]

John the IICRC is a certifying body, they have no members.

We are certified by them but we are not members they are not an association.

 

[Desk Jockey]

After reading Ken Snow's post I would say that Lee's task is going to a monumental one. That type of budget would take even more than what John is suggesting to get off the ground.

Unfortunately at the customer level they are still nearly unknown.


What about updating the consumer web pages, or maybe a separate site that cleaners can link to from their websites. ????

This is all that is currently used to motivate a consumer to use an IICRC firm. Needs some punching up and some graphics, kind of luke warm as it is.

The Institute of Inspection, Cleaning and Restoration Certification (IICRC) has served as the Industry Guardian for the cleaning, inspection and restoration service industries for more than 30 years. As a non-profit certification organization, the IICRC helps ensure that you have access to trusted and trained cleaning professionals by establishing and monitoring certification programs and standards for these industries.

To qualify for IICRC-Certified Firm status businesses must demonstrate proof of insurance, maintain a written customer complaint policy with documented follow-up and provide ongoing education and training leading to certification for all technicians. IICRC Certified Firms are also required to abide by the IICRC Code of Ethics. Services provided by IICRC–Certified professionals range from flooring inspection and cleaning to mold remediation to water and fire damage restoration.

 

[John Olson]

You are correct Richard, wrong terminology. My BAD. The IICRC is owned by Stock Holders whom are Orginaztions that do have Members...Do we need to get into semantics? :?

Larry I hear ya but...what is the first thing that someone says when you ask them to name a Carpet Cleaning Company? Stanley Steemer will come out of most everyones mouth even mine. Why? Because of marketing.

Next

How many of you have ever really and truly had a customer that gave a crap about your training or the IICRC

This is a good point but really doesn't have any bearing and this is why. Before you can use this as an arguement every customer would need to be educated BEFORE they called someone and if after they where educated and stilled called the uneducated cleaner then it would be valid.

With the economy the way its heading do you think a customer will pay more because they see IICRC TV commercials?

Larry I must have missed something. Where does the paying more come in? I don't think as a whole Master technicans and Certified Firms Charge MORE then everyone else, I believe these are Ideas to get the consumer to choose educated cleaners and firms over non-educated cleaners and firms. You know the guys you get called to come clean up after. The ones that just ripped off the little old lady and left her carpets soaked and ful of soap. it cost the consumer way more to call a Hack then to have it done right the first time instead of having to have it down twice.

Larry i think you will be very valuable in helping in finding something that will work. Keep throwing stuff out that you think won't work and I'll try to find a reason for it to work and maybe someone smarter then both of us can combine it all and turn it into a masterpiece

 

[Larry B]

I understand what your talking about John but there is a huge difference in what SS does and what the IICRC is wanting to start.


SS has money coming from all over the country in huge amounts to run the TV ads and newspaper adds they run. SS has also been doing this for years and are not trying to start at this time when prices are through the roof. SS also offers a service and is not trying to teach people to look for a little green logo on a phone book add.

So to me I wouldn't even compare SS advertising to what the IICRC is wanting to do.


The other problem with suck & run companies are that no matter how mach the IICRC advertises suck & run companies will start everyday.

People search out Suck & Run companies because of there low prices and not because of their training or quality of service.

There is no true way in my opinion to do the kind of marketing to the general consumer that they are talking about. When A consumer wont even listen to the retailer that sells them the carpet or even care about what the warranty on the carpet calls for then what is a TV add going to do?

 

[LeeZ]

Hi Everybody,
I have been trying to comment back to you all morning, but have been having technical difficultities.
First I will give you a "short" history about me.
I started in the industry in the early 70s for my uncle. He had an in-plant cleaning company. We occassionally went out to peoples' homes using a shampoo machine. I had the great job of cleaning the edges of the carpet with a bucket and brush! I left that job and went to work for a movie theatre company in their maintenance department. Guess what I did, started cleaning their carpets in-house along with other things. Left that job and ended up back with my uncle.
In 1987, my wife and I started our own cleaning company. Shortly after that, Jim Pemberton, my wife (Kathy), and I started a chapter of the then UCCI Association. A couple of years later, I became the president of UCCI. In 1990 I became a board member of IICRC representing UCCI on the board. I became president of IICRC in 2000 and sevre that position for 3 years. This year I left the board, but continue to serve on committees.
Now you know more that you ever wanted to know about me!

 

[Desk Jockey]

What about instead of spending the budget with different media trying getting the message out, you instead spend it supporting carpet cleaning in their marketing efforts.

Co-op dollars could be used with higher values going to those who use media that reach the most consumers.

Each certified firm would be limited on how much they could receive, but then you would not only help the cleaner but also get your logo out there. :?:



John, not hitting you intentionally, but there are so many newbe's that actually think they are members of an IICRC association.

 

[Chris Muetterties]

I would take this fight to the Internet.

So when you search you might get the IICRC and what they do and how to find a Master Cleaner or a CF ?

This is much cheaper and can be done Nationally

 

[RandyH]

I have never been asked about any certification ever in 28 years. I took the cct class a year ago because of the "big scare" about iicrc certification. Big mistake ,waste of time and money. Like a previous post ,people want referrals from other people they trust ,not iicrc.Don't need 'em don't want 'em! Golden Rule will do more for you than the iicrc

 

[harryhides]

I am no Marketing expert so when I need marketing advice I tend to look for a real Professional even a "Certified" "Master Marketer" with a track record of great results with whom to spend my budget.
Perhaps a Certifying Standards setting Institute should start there ?

Most marketing Pros talk about the importance of "branding" and "differentiating yourself" or having a "Unique Selling Proposition".
So my guess is that if a consumer is successfully led to the services of an IICRC Company but then they do NOT feel that the chosen CF's service was "Unique" "Professional" or "outstanding" then THAT customer will never again be attracted to ANY Company promoting their "Certification", will they ?

So for me Job #1 would be to make the "Standards" for acquiring "Certification" a whole lot higher than at present. This is because every "certified" hack that promotes iicrc Certification is working very effectively AGAINST any marketing effort of iicrc either current or future. Those with a real bad employee can no doubt relate as to the damage they can inflict on your Company.

Not an easy task and even more difficult to enforce high standards:
I wonder if there was a place on the iicrc web-site for complaints to be posted - 3 complaints ( per week, month, year ? ) and you lose your certification ?
If nothing else this "complaint site" would give the iicrc a very real insight into how well or poorly we/they are doing. If you can't measure it, you can't manage it !

I repeat, I'm no expert and the above is merely my 2 cents worth. I look forward to seeing what comes from Lee's reaching out to cleaners via the internet for their viewpoints - this is a first - hats off to Lee.


Couple of ideas - ask every iicrc Firm to link their web-site to iicrc's and also the other way around - ie make sure that any Google search for a Professional Cleaner the iicrc web-site comes up FIRST !
Clean up the iicrc web-site ie get a Professional Marketing specialist fix it up and make it more effective and user friendly.

If iicrc cannot afford National Ads and I don't think they can - why not start in one State - find out what works and then expand the program as funds ( which would increase IF it does work ) and expand to other States.

 

[Larry B]

Some things to help


RE-DO the IICRC website. If you want customers to come their to find IICRC certified firms then gear a website to that and not the site you have now.


Like John said above a newspaper add listing the certified firms in that area would work better than TV adds telling customers to look for your LOGO.

If the IICRC really wants brand awareness then get off the money train and start letting people that pass your certification use the logo on their adds and equipment. If a company has IICRC certified cleaners then let them post the logo.

Let the IICRC make approved fliers and other marketing material that businesses can add their name and logo to for mailing and passing out.

Make a IICRC note that companies can give to their customers explaining what the IICRC is and what a certified firm can do for them


You have to keep in mind you are not selling a service or even a product but trying to sell an idea to a consumer that the IICRC certification is something to look for.

I understand the IICRC wants certified firms with all their employees certified to use the logo but at the same time you are shooting yourself in the foot. If a large operation wants all their employees to be certified it would be almost impossible to keep it that way with employee turnover and seasonal hiring practices.

At the very least if at least 1 person a each two man crew was certified then they should be able to run the logo on their vans and it would help to increase consumer awareness of the IICRC logo.

 

[-JB-]

I would take this fight to the Internet.

Great idea!

 

[The Preacher]

the names i'd suggest to be your Lt's. would be Wayne Miller, Scott Rendall and Andrechelle.com.

they each have a specialty that would get this train rolling and each own a cleaning biz just like you.

 

[DRScrivner]

Here is the tag line for the whole ball of wax...."Look for the Logo"

 

[LeeZ]

We already have monthly "naps" articles that go out to the newspaper media. Not to insult anyone, but let me explain what a naps article is. They are pre-written articles that go into a library of articles. When a newspaper needs articles about about our industry, they can go to this site and use it. We have many of the articles used throughout the year.
We watch the weather and send articles, B-roll, and contact information that have catastrophes in their area. B-roll is pre-made TV information on proper care and clean up that TV stations can use in their news stories.
Our Public Relation firm is contantly sending out info to the News World and referring IICRC Experts to answer specific questions.
We work with firms to try and keep IICRC on the first page of any websearch that is done.
These are just a few things that we are doing right now off the top of my head.
Some of the things I'm considering is a package of advertising (newspaper, radio and TV) that Certified Firms can get that explains why you are better than the "average" cleaner. ASE did it for the Auto Mechanics.
I am seeing alot of great ideas coming forward, but the bottom line is we all have to work together to make this work. IICRC can't do it alone. It takes you and me!

 

[LeeZ]

You guys are making it tough for me to keep up! That's not a shot at you, I think its great. Trouble is, I use the Columbus stlye of typing; See it and land on it! I have to leave to go to my great neice's birthday party, but I will be back tonight to try and answer some more of your questions.
Thanks,
Lee

 

[Chris Muetterties]

Lee
Is the IICRC or anyone on the BOD working on a national association ?

 

[Greenie]

THe war will be won on the internet for sure, it's the most cost effective media, and through a network of "volunteers", it takes work, and unpaid (directly) work is what is going to get it done. And finally money....you simply are going to have to prove to your certified cleaners that this volunteer work and cooperation will help bring them a better paying customer.

If you line it up, I see no problem in a cleaner kicking in $500 a year if he sees the benefits, gets a dozen or so quality customers a year and all of their referrals from the effort.

It's the current problem, nonody wants to throw money to the wind, the current belief of many cleaners (see Randy) shows that.

But...if there was a plan... it would change quickly.

 

[DRScrivner]

do regional supervisors still exsist in the IICRC? if not, i'd say that a group of RS are needed to help promote the IICRC in given regions.

i noticed the new phone book here is full of IICRC logos and claims of IICRC educated companies. I hope the IICRC will take on the liars, cheats and sociapaths be thinned from the hurd mantra!!!

Lee can you tell us some of the ideas you have in mind?

I agree 100%. I am not a Certified Firm and have never used the logo. I have even let my Master Cleaner Status lapse as the classes have been good for me but that has been the extent of my benefit.

One of my biggest problems is that as far as I know every single IICRC Carpet Cleaning class teaches that 71-74% or soil is dry soil and should be vacuumed out.

However there are MANY, MANY IICRC Certified Firms that don't even carry a vac on their truck- yet the IICRC does nothing to prevent their own teachings to be violated by their own Certified Firms- ummmm why?

 

[RandyH]

I don't need the iicrc., but I do need this forum. I have gotten great ideas from here ( glides, 20 vol.,4 to the door, no more 1.5 inch whip) all the people on this forum seem to want to give the customer the best quality they know how. I believe this is all we need , talk to each other about everyday experiences and suggest ways to improve our services.

 

[Greenie]

really?

I don't think it can hurt to have a more educated and aware customer, what makes susie homeowner call you instead of the $99 whole house guy with the snazzy Ad? She doesn't know she's been taken advantage of until it's all over and done with, and she's not likely to call another suckmop operator for years.

 

[Jimmy L]

We need an actual national association instead of a door with a logo on it and a sign that says, " SLIP ANOTHER FITTY DOLLARS UNDER DEE DOOR".

 

[Ken Snow]

Greenie~ people can be taken advantage of at every price point. Someone who has a successful business model, creating new clients with referrals from their cheerleaders and price points of $99.99, may just have the high flow of work or have a cost structure spread out over a higher volume to allow them to be successful.

Ken

 

[sweendogg]

I agree 100%. I am not a Certified Firm and have never used the logo. I have even let my Master Cleaner Status lapse as the classes have been good for me but that has been the extent of my benefit.

One of my biggest problems is that as far as I know every single IICRC Carpet Cleaning class teaches that 71-74% or soil is dry soil and should be vacuumed out.

However there are MANY, MANY IICRC Certified Firms that don't even carry a vac on their truck- yet the IICRC does nothing to prevent their own teachings to be violated by their own Certified Firms- ummmm why?

Although we are a certified firm, we know there are several companies just in our area that advertize the exact same standards and claim IICRC Certfied status but carry out very poor cleaning practices. Heck even the local stanley steamer is a certfied firm.. but they still leave the carpet soaked down and full of soap.

Yes we need to educate the consumers and I think you are correct in saying it has to be something we all have to do. From our personal websites to the IIcrc website updating, to marketing geared at educating the consumer.

But if you can't enforce the policies and procedures that supposedly set us apart from joe blo carpet sucker than all the educating the consumer fails when a conumer hires an "iicrc certified firm" who does not follow moral cleaning practices. After a certified firm fails a customer in an area, its gives the rest of the certified firms a black eye and credibility is lost.

How do you correct this? Tougher policies? Make it harder to become a certified firm besides paying dues? Myster shopper conumsers? Have a section in your website where consumers can review a certified firm after a cleaning have them check off the cleaning procedures such as vacuuming, pretreating, ext.. I think this will do a few things. it will get more traffic to the iicrc site if a cleaning technician directs them to fill out a survey. Having the consumer spell out what a cleaning company is doing during a visit will lead to educating the consumer if the survey is set up right. Also you get feedback on your cert. firms and this can lead to a grading system. If you rank below a B too many times, you forfiet the cert. firm status. Let the consumers hold us accountable, they pay the bills. Give them a voice. If we are going to educate them we better listen to them as well.

also Get all the major carpet mills on track with IICRC like Shaw has already done. This will go leaps and bounds to give the IICRC Credibility. If the entire industry is agreement over these care standards then more retailers will either want to or have to back the standards as well.

 

[Ron Werner]

A lot of thoughts.

For marketing, Youtube or sites like that have made unknown people very well known. The younger generation, the ones that will be buying and maintaining carpet in the next 10+ yrs is a big target. You won't reach them with the typical IICRC marketing that I have seen. Just talking about "educated carpet cleaners" or "look for the logo" will mean nothing to them. Go to a highschool, talk to the teens, talk to univ students, all demographics, learn what hits their hot buttons. Call Youtube and ask them for help, what their observations have been about the best promoted videos. Many of these have gotten INTERNATIONAL fame. After all, the USA is not the only country involved.

Retailers and Installers are good places to begin. Many don't even know the IICRC exists!If they do, they certainly aren't passing the info down to the consumer. I've walked into a couple retail stores and its like I am teaching them by mentioning the basics of cleaning. They haven't a clue about carpet maintenance.
This is the front line, right here.

In my own marketing, the LEAST effective message has been about my "education". The most effective is about "what I can do", ie my performance. I just did a BNI presentation. When I mentioned about my "education", ie IICRC Master Cleaner, the courses, the Vegas trips, etc, they did go "Oh!!" but then I am presenting this one on one with people that have an interest in my busn. When I am sending a flyer out, I'm sure it would be a bomb if that is what I focused on.
Look at Joe Polish's and Howard's marketing. Very little of that is geared towards the "education" of the cleaner.

Just thinking about this point as I review what I wrote. If I wrote a flyer that promoted JUST my education, and then had a statement like "Who would you choose to clean your carpets?" I wonder what the response would be. The ad could talk about just how valuable the carpet is, how important it is to the health of the home, how un-educated un-certified cleaners are. Would I even mention the negative about some cleaners or focus on the positives of certification.
I can't mention about "Jo blo carpet cleaner here. There is a Joe the Carpet Cleaner in my town he does "aromatherapy cleaning" with essential oils and has never taken a IICRC class. SO, would I target him?

The use of the logo is going to have to be policed better as already mentioned. Too many companies that I wouldn't give two cents for are using it. The complaints site/call-in-centre might be a way to enforce a standard.
Then there are simply so many companies that aren't certified. Many have never taken a course.
Would we go for goverment licencing in order to hang your shingle? Ugly thought!!

How would the government do it?? I cringe at thinking like this but there are standards and codes for electricians, plumbers, construction. How are they enforced? What are the consequences? There certainly are bad tradesmen, what are the methods involved with them? Are they working? DO consumers listen?

No matter what advertising is done, we will NEVER get rid of the bad cleaners. There are bad cleaners out there charging high price and low. Some low price cleaners target a market that could care less about certification. Some low price cleaners out clean many of the bigger, better educated guys because they are new, and take their time. I cleaned a place the other day, 3 small rooms and a hall, lots of pet spots. AS I was talking to the client, who was referred by a client, there was nothing special that I did, no reason why another cleaner couldn't have gotten the same results. His reply was about "time" taken. I was there for 3 hrs!

You can educate a cleaner all you want. In the end the performance will be dictated by their work ethic.

There is a target market for this advertising, that would be the first step, identifying who this would matter to. Doesn't matter what's in an ad, if the consumer isn't interested, you could have 10 words or 10,000, they'll never read it or listen to it.
Its repetition, repetition, repetition. Citruso has a brand awareness because they advertised like crazy on radio and paper. I get so many people asking about it. People might not be interested but they hear the compelling ad over and over. If that was done, the first words, rather than "How much do you charge?" would be "Are you an IICRC Certified Firm?"

That is the goal I take it.

 

[Mikey P]

I like Tony's idea.


Make the IICRC the Angie's List for Cleaning Services.

3 legit complaints and you're OUT!





As for Larry's comment..

Consumers don't listen to the retail stores, manufacturers or installers about cleaning so why would they care about your TV add ?

Maybe for you bud but I get most of my new work from the above.