BUTLER - is it my next truck mount?

[Scott S.]

That's the exact opposite of my reasoning. I wanted sound, proven history for my purchase.
This industry is well known for the latest and greatest being not so great.
May your purchase be all you want it to be.

how many pro1200's do you think are out there, each time the machine has been updated it got improved. pro1200 some guys are still running them, sapphire pro1200, still a fire breathing beast, new pro1200se, built for duel wanding, fire breathing, and smooth unrestricted airflow. even has a prefilter box that filters out the big crap so it doesnt clog up the main filter as easy. Just like the butler.
and sapphire has gotten the highest heat.

Sapphire airflow
Butler airflow

 

[Mark Saiger]

Butler durability... And I really am not sure where you are reading into warranty issues.

As stated, been running them for years... No warranty issues.


.oh....

And stainless steel tanks....

Very nice lifetime feature to go with that long time run for a long time feature.

Servicing of the unit such as changing belts...let me know how that treats you.

I don't even need a wrench to replace belts on the Butler unit inside the van...

Bearings in the front of the Blower... Beefier as required by Butler specs. Can't say I know about the others, but know the Butler

Cooling, they don't need an additional fan to cool the van motor and additional parts of the van as they have that figured out with one fan m

Noise levels, not going to beat a Butler and won't beat my current Butler as they redesigned the waste tank to be even more efficient And the redesign made it quieter yet...

So, when you get 250,000 miles on your van (if you do) and over 11,000 hours on that unit and original motor (if you do) then we will talk....

Glad you are excited though about your purchase as we all should be about new toys, but if it comes down to all the info about a Butler, I am just getting started...

Yes... I also wear and wave my Butler colors proudly too

 

[Mark Saiger]

how many pro1200's do you think are out there, each time the machine has been updated it got improved. pro1200 some guys are still running them, sapphire pro1200, still a fire breathing beast, new pro1200se, built for duel wanding, fire breathing, and smooth unrestricted airflow. even has a prefilter box that filters out the big crap so it doesnt clog up the main filter as easy. Just like the butler.
and sapphire has gotten the highest heat.

Sapphire airflow
Butler airflow

As well as my comments above....

She has more than plenty of suck to go with the squirt.....

Highest heat from the SS....NO, you are misinformed....

Dual wanding with the SS new model....sure....any unit probably can...but how efficient....you are not going to run high flow....but you can run low flow and do it....just not as efficient in my opinion

And cold weather cleaning....probably the best in the industry to clean in extreme cold weather....

Butler....Proven reliability....proven performance....

You get what you pay for....

 

[Scott S.]

Saiger, don't get to bent out of shape us going back and forth is fun, admit it. and some besides that we can teach some people something about these two great machines.
So let the debate continue:
remember my machine is a lot cheaper than yours, because I didn't have butler build it. But more importantly because I can get parts, service, and all that within easy driving distance.

as others have stated, they are still running pro1200 the original versions, just as butler has some of their models from the last few years still running.

as for belts, how does it feel having to call butler every time your machine eats a set?

oh, 10 bolts and a auto tensioner and I'm back in service, and quickly since I can gets belts any one of the 1 million auto part stores. lets see how long until my first set bites the dust.

how do you feel about your butler having to run so many more RPM's just to keep up with the pro1200? ever wonder if that's the real reason butler has put bigger bearings in the blower, to cover all that extra turn of the blower to make it SUCK. haha

As far as duel wanding I will find out what exactly she can do with two wands at 8 flow. I have a test already layed out for the new machine.

you get what you pay for yes, in butlers case, they compensated with shelves and other distractions so you don't notice their 1970's design.

 

[Scott S.]

saiger whats the RPM on high on a butler unit?
The pro 1200se is 1400 rpm

 

[Scott S.]

Butler does have a silencer, yes, I give that to you.

 

[Scott S.]

whats the highest temp you get on your gage when your running saiger?
once I get mine ill see what it is and truthfully tell you what I get.

cold weather cleaning, I bet they are both awesome.

 

[Scott S.]

Saiger" data-source="post: 4387255" class="bbCodeBlock bbCodeBlock--expandable bbCodeBlock--quote js-expandWatch">

Butler durability... And I really am not sure where you are reading into warranty issues.

As stated, been running them for years... No warranty issues.

Yes... I also wear and wave my Butler colors proudly too

You can wave your butler color proudly, I would to.

as for warranty issues, I doubt you will have any since every other video you promote their company. FREEBIES!!!

 

[Able 1]

I would not dual wand with a 47 I have one.. Ashley has me wondering though..

 

[Scott S.]

408 blower in the pro1200

 

[Mark Saiger]

47 Tuthill on the Butler


And don't forget to bring your grease gun for the drive shaft... Which I don't need to do.

Belts you can use belts from Uptown not really a situation, but with Butler, they are trying to up the game and find a better compound belt for all climate situations. I've been able to go Uptown for them.

Glad you enjoy your wrenches though to take those ten bolts off for the units belts... Just use the grease from the grease gun to sooth the scrapes while your greasing that drive shaft.

Heat, 200 at the wand... Both units SS and Butler,

Dual wand with a 4008.... (Butler 47 Tuthill) Again can be done, not into it...

Rpms 1750 rpm on high... On regular 1400. . .my philosophy if you got the power there.. Use it!

Blower spins on high at 3500 rpm. Van spinning at half the rpm...

Fuel consumption on high... 1.5 - 2 gallons... Have tested it...

Again as far as any warranty issues I have not heard if ANY Butler owner having a situation ever... And with the boards being around for many years, I bet we would have heard about someone.... And it doesn't take someone with a video camera to get warranty or service.

Shelving... You can get as little or as much as you want. I rather put things on a shelf than on the floor... Or purchase cheaper Shelving...

So keep the debate going if we must... And test gauges... They all vary, but I do have the gauge in my unit that was used at Vegas.

As far as freebies... If you want my free hat and pen, I would be happy to send it to you if you would like. I'm not much of a hat guy

 

[hogjowl]

I'm just happy to have power windows and a working radio.

 

[Mark Saiger]

Heat from Vegas in my notes

Butler
6 flow 200
12 flow 185


Sapphire Scientific 1200 SE
6 flow 200
12 flow 180

 

[Mark Saiger]

I have a factory installed reverse camera too . And power mirrors and Windows

And a one ton and 6.0

Did I mention shinny wheels

 

[Nate The Great]

I'm still waiting on pics of the temp gauge atw...

I'm just razzin ya Markie... I respect you and your passion & drive for our industry..

 

[hogjowl]

I have a rear camera too, and I'm told i have heated mirrors. Although, I'm not sure why.

 

[Brian H]

once I get mine ill see what it is and truthfully tell you what I get.

cold weather cleaning, I bet they are both awesome.

Wait a second...you are doing all this bragging about the 1200 and you don't even own one?

 

[Scott S.]

I look at it like this, the SS is within 5 degrees worth of heat at more flow than I like to run, but at 8 flow both machines should be within 2 degrees but my machine spins 350 less rpms less saving that extra wear on the engine.

dual wanding - obviously both machines can dual wand.

Belts - last time I checked auto parts stores sold belts for vehicles, that run in all climates.
I can drive to the store, buy the belts, take those 10 easily accessed bolts off, change the belts, and put everything back together, before butler even packs your order for shipment ups red.

Drive shaft - Remember I don't have to call butler, or drive back to them for a repair, or monkey around with it myself, I have a local distributor who services CDS's and they use the same proven drive shaft. so if there is ever a problem I just take a spin.
Also the grease part I hear is super easy. and they even supply a fitting to make sure its easy access and quick to do.
http://www.sapphirescientific.com/Uploads/Document/2230/49-139.pdf PAGE 39


shelving, got me there, I do like butler shelves.

can your machine run powdered extraction agents? I hear that they have a lot of problems with that.

I have a 1 ton, with rear view camera also, yay......

 

[Mark Saiger]

I look at it like this, the SS is within 5 degrees worth of heat at more flow than I like to run, but at 8 flow both machines should be within 2 degrees but my machine spins 350 less rpms less saving that extra wear on the engine.

dual wanding - obviously both machines can dual wand.

Belts - last time I checked auto parts stores sold belts for vehicles, that run in all climates.
I can drive to the store, buy the belts, take those 10 easily accessed bolts off, change the belts, and put everything back together, before butler even packs your order for shipment ups red.

Drive shaft - Remember I don't have to call butler, or drive back to them for a repair, or monkey around with it myself, I have a local distributor who services CDS's and they use the same proven drive shaft. so if there is ever a problem I just take a spin.
Also the grease part I hear is super easy. and they even supply a fitting to make sure its easy access and quick to do.
http://www.sapphirescientific.com/Uploads/Document/2230/49-139.pdf PAGE 39


shelving, got me there, I do like butler shelves.

can your machine run powdered extraction agents? I hear that they have a lot of problems with that.

I have a 1 ton, with rear view camera also, yay......

Once you own a direct drive for awhile, you will definitely enjoy it....but as far as belts....you are probably not going to be experiencing a major problem as do us (we replace them once a year anyway) but people who operate direct drives in extreme heated climates, might experience quicker wear from their heat, so Butler is just trying to make a product better that will benefit all....

Just an FYI, it is better to replace those front belts more often (once a year minimum in my opinion) because they will cause undue wear on the bottom pulley mounted on the Crankshaft....they tend to groove out the lower pulley faster as they wear and get sucked in deeper....so....no matter what type of DD you run....just something my family recommends doing

Dive shafts....don't have to grease them....haven't had to replace one....and one of our units as I mentioned that my family has owned cleans part time and has over 11,000 hours on it....that includes the drive shaft (which you do not have to grease ; ) )

Premature wear on a motor....that above Butler mentioned now would have equivalent to 619,000 miles on the original motor and still not taking any oil (250,000 road miles and over 11,000 hours of Butler run time) Not too worried about premature wear issues you could say as we have units like this we run all the time....

Tell me about those tanks? Stainless or Aluminum? Want to see some pics of some aluminum pieces only 3 years old been exposed to liquids and cleaners in a van?

Powders....no problem if you wish....just order the correct and different metering unit for them....

But, I find a lot of Liquids will still clean better than some powders....so me and my family tend to run what chemistry we find working better....but very small point if you really like powders....

Now get yourself that unit installed....get some shiny wheels and start showing some pics and videos of you making some money with it

And by the way....if I were to buy a SS....Pemberton's is a great choice! You are Definitely a smart man in this case

 

[Tony Wilson]

Wait guys. I'm out of popcorn. Be right back . . . . Lol

Stupid question. When you talk about flow, 6 flow at 200 degrees etc. or 12 flow? Is that pressure or? I should know this but . . . .

 

[dgardner]

Tony, they are referring to the size of the jets in their wand, which indirectly indicates how much solution they flow.

If one has a six-jet wand and each jet is size 02 then we would say that wand is 12 flow.

A typical jet might have the part number 9502 - this breaks down to 95° spray angle and size 02.

 

[hogjowl]

But to confuse things even more, don't think those numbers reflect actual flow rates.

 

[dgardner]

Very true!

 

[Todd Millar]

I have never used the SS so I can't comment on it, But I been using Butlers since 1997 and after reading what some of you guys go thru with problems and or maintaining your systems, I am glad I have a Butler.
I just love it {not} when someone likes to make comments on a system they've never owned or run for an extended period of time and point out all the flaws and reasons they wouldn't buy one , when the things they point out are complete non issues and they would have learned this if they had actually run the machine for awhile!!

 

[Tony Wilson]

Thanks. At least i'm not "As confused" now...lol

 

[Tony Wilson]

True Todd. Thank you. I really am liking what I am seeing and reading with regards to the Butler system and company. The only bummer for me is If I get one I won't be supporting my local guy. Well, that's not really true, I will be continually supporting him with chem, supplies, etc. but We have been working together basically since I started back in 98'. I think I'm way to loyal in that way. Oh well.

 

[Dolly Llama]

But to confuse things even more, don't think those numbers reflect actual flow rates.

actually I think they do.
if i recall, the rating is tenths of gal at 40 psi
But it isn't laminar in the sense that an 02 jet flows 2 tenths GPM at 40 psi doesn't equate to 2 GPM at 400 psi


we now return you to your "my brand TM is the greatest because" thread


..L.T.A.

 

[Captain America]

Not many pto's around here but my conclusion:
Pos: quiter....Enclosed van to keep hoses from freezing....possibly easier setup????
Neg:
More expensive to buy and repair( all machines will have breakdowns in time)
Same heat as others
About the same vacuum
More wear on the van motor
Just remember just because your truckmount costs more does not give you more work

 

[dgardner]

actually I think they do.
if i recall, the rating is tenths of gal at 40 psi

You are absolutely right - but I think what Marty was alluding to (and what I agreed with) is that number goes out the window when you put the jet(s) at the end of varying lengths of solution line with different fittings, etc. and measure pressure at the machine, as we usually do. The actual flow thus bears little resemblance to the calculated flow.

 

[dgardner]

But it isn't laminar in the sense that an 02 jet flows 2 tenths GPM at 40 psi doesn't equate to 2 GPM at 400 psi

Also true - in fact it's an exponential function - the flow increases as the square of the pressure. So the 02 jet that flows 0.2 GPM at 40 psi flows 2.0 GPM at 4000 psi. That's 10 times the flow at 100 times the pressure.