enlighten me.....

[Billy]

Thanks Billy.
Luckily for me you never saw, how convoluted my first versions are. Having English as a second language makes for some original (goofy) sentences.
My original paragraphs in English seem to entertain my wife to no end.

LOL If O am really trying to write I have my wife critique mine or even better just write it for me. What makes me worse than you is English is supposed to be my First Language

 

[Jim Martin]

[quote="Jim Martin":2srwrk0o]so in a nut shell.....

high end cleaners are not limited to big ticket jobs....your a fool...or just have no type of business since if you turn down a job that you can MAKE money on even if it is not considered a " high end job "..........we do this to make money... secure our future and provide for our families........not watch it pass us up.....

You are not a fool if you follow your ethics & morals & don't charge whatever you think you can just to make a few dollars instead of being fair & charging what you say you charge. I'm really puzzled by the insinuation if you don't lower your prices just to get a job you have no type of business since. Seems that by your logic everyone that sells a product or service at a higher rate than the average is a failure at business.

This really seems like repeating the same over and over again, without defining (agreeing) on what one means by the word "High End." And what is "Watching it pass us up," means.
For me "high End" means that they are willing to pay my non-negotiable prices (that are the same for any or everybody.) And on my end it means that I'll give them the best service (which is not solely cleaning) I can provide, within reason. (No, I will not pre-vacuum for two hours.) It has nothing to do with the size of the job or the total bill.

you seem to be stuck on the lower your prices......I am not saying go out there and lower your prices to get work...I am not going to work just to here my machine run....but if the chance comes that I can make a few extra hundred dollars...I am not going to let my pricing structure hold me back from doing it...every chance I get..I am going to take what I can to raise my bottom line and have a better safety net for me and my families future....But I am smart enough not to cut my nose off to spite my face...where as some..will hold there ground because it is beneath them to do it..and will rate themselves as ..." High end cleaners "

Jim, using your own logic: You are right- Passing that job where you can make money, is taking money away from your family. The same can be said about reducing your price to grab that extra job, You may be depriving yourself of making a better (what you perceive as fair) money and providing a better living for your family. As we are all selling our time, which is not unlimited and very precious.

it a balance with the family..and it is no different then anyone punching a clock and doing the 9 to 5 thing...you do what you have to...But I can still make more then the guy who says that he is only doing 1 job a day and still have time with my family...


As always, it is not an all or nothing game.

If you're not busy, maybe getting it makes sense with some potential pitfalls (like existing clients finding out & being upset about paying a different price. Or what I think Billy means- It is just simply not fair. And if you wish, there are ways around it, depending on your marketing etc.)





Apple seems to be a pretty successful "high end" company- their prices certainly are. And most people seem to be quite happy about them. Last time I checked they don't exactly negotiate their prices to grab every potential client out there. So far, it's been working for them.

your not comparing apples to apples...( no pun intended )....apple sells the commodity..we sell a service.....and if we don't sell our service..we go hungry....

If one chooses to sell themselves as a commodity, they'd better have the volume to make the $$.
If they choose to sell themselves as "high end," they'd better provide their clients both real + perceived quality and lots of intangibles to justify the $$.[/quote:2srwrk0o]

a lot of what has been said makes since...

 

[floorguy]

As a board member here (whos much smarter than he lets on) has said numerous times, its not what you MAKE, its what you KEEP. There are ways to make high net profits at the top, bottom, and middle of the price structure, its all in what you decide to do with YOUR business.

oh shit so you mean....

ifn there are 3 of us in the company making 6 figures then the biz had better be high priced??

 

[joe harper]

As a board member here (whos much smarter than he lets on) has said numerous times, its not what you MAKE, its what you KEEP. There are ways to make high net profits at the top, bottom, and middle of the price structure, its all in what you decide to do with YOUR business.

oh shit so you mean....

ifn there are 3 of us in the company making 6 figures then the biz had better be high priced??

YES.... eat shit!

 

[joe harper]

..................................PROFIT is like SEX..................................

"Let them that don't want ANY"...... "Have memories of getting NONE."

 

[floorguy]

..................................PROFIT is like SEX..................................

"Let them that don't want ANY"...... "Have memories of getting NONE."

oh i get plenties..... J/K J/K J/K J/K J/K J/K J/K J/K















































of profit

 

[ronnieballenger]

i used to go after every job no matter what i had to charge.. now if its not worth it,,,, i dont go..
but after i get in the home and do my wonderful cleaning..... I'll be back... LOL

 

[ruff]

Jim,
By now this discussion feels like dogs running around trying to catch their tails.

To sum it up, I guess I could say:
"I refuse to lower my prices to
accommodate those who refuse to raise theirs...."

But I won't! eat yor heart out Werner

 

[Jim Martin]

Jim,
By now this discussion feels like dogs running around trying to catch their tails.

To sum it up, I guess I could say:
"I refuse to lower my prices to
accommodate those who refuse to raise theirs...."

But I won't! eat yor heart out Werner

There is a lot of good info on this going both directions...
Not really a right or wrong here...the biggest confused part is about lower prices..but that's not really the issue...yes if you can gain a better bottom line by getting something that you can make money on then by all means grab it.....

Don't limit yourself just because you think that your going to survive in this industry doing 1 good paying job a day...

Not every one can raise there prices and do what everyone thinks they can......every market is different...could I raise mine a bit....probably....but why..I make a good living..I have a strong structured company....I start at 7 and normally in by 3 at the latest....I work one Saturday out of the month and 3 evening jobs a year...I make more then the 1 job a day guys...and I have a much wider safety net for there future .....

I have managed to accomplish more in 9 short years then most have in 15......this is not saying that it could not be better..but I am not going to paint a picture of something that is not......

 

[joe harper]

Jim,
By now this discussion feels like dogs running around trying to catch their tails.

To sum it up, I guess I could say:
"I refuse to lower my prices to
accommodate those who refuse to raise theirs...."

But I won't! eat yor heart out Werner

We say the same thing in the South....lol

It is just a little more to the point !... less ambiguous .."if you will." who cares!

"I have raised my standard's....so....UP YOUR'S.." eat shit! eat shit! eat shit! eat shit!

 

[Billy]

Jim,
By now this discussion feels like dogs running around trying to catch their tails.

To sum it up, I guess I could say:
"I refuse to lower my prices to
accommodate those who refuse to raise theirs...."

But I won't! eat yor heart out Werner

 

[Brian R]

I only read the first post (7 pages holy crap)


It's all about hours to dollars... How many dollars do you make? How many hours do you work?

Do those dollars keep coming in after you do the work? Or do you have to spend more hours to get more dollars?


Trading your hours for dollars will kill you in this business.

 

[Ron Werner]

Interesting read.
I've walked on many jobs. Most of those were people that really didn't appreciate better service and only saw carpet cleaning as a commodity. These custies are the type that would agree a tech could clean 1000sf in an hour (from the time they arrived to the time they left) and still believe they've removed as much soil as possible. They think THEY know what clean is not the professional. Unfortunately, there are more than enough companies in every city that will accommodate them, promoting just the same "clean" but at half the price and half the time. And those companies do very well. They will always be there. And they provide some excellent clients to the better cleaners.

Now "any" tech can clean a clean carpet, speed wand it, move the soil around, and it looks hunky dory and the custy is satisfied. I've moved my wand faster and if I didn't GAS I wouldn't have realized I am moving it faster than what it was designed to move. Sure it makes it look better, but it could have looked/been better. But that's their busn model, that's their speed required to do 5+jobs /day, they are making their money, so all is good. Just doesn't really help the industry much. One company works ethically, another doesn't, both look and sound the same, and customers can't tell the difference.

The US recession has reached here, with help from our govt putting on higher taxes, people aren't calling, being more sticky with their money, not just in our industry but in many others too. I was not about to drop my price for the service I provide. As has been stated, it wouldn't be fair to those that paid that price. I just had to figure out how to say it since most people market their Bronze/silver/gold levels as all "cleaning" the same. The only way to fairly lower price, to offer that budget level cleaning, is to decrease service, which in turn decreases the cleaning ability. So, they get what they pay for. I do not sell my least level as "clean" but more that it will "look" as clean, which it will. And it will be a better job than the other prespray/rinse companies because I just don't work that fast.

I can do one or two jobs a day, take more time, make more per job, or I can do more budget level cleaning, meeting those people at their needs/budget, can work faster and make the same hourly rate, and do a few extra jobs in a day. At the end of the day, I would make the same, but I drove farther, ran the truck longer, used more solution.

I try not to turn anyone down because they are just people looking to have their carpets cleaned. (They have NO idea about carpet cleaning, whats involved etc, but it looks dirty and they want it clean. Then they start reading and calling and getting all sorts of mixed info. Thats the real shame) But I won't drop my price below my set rates JUST to get the job. There will always be a cleaner willing to undercut you. Took me years to be able to just let it go and I paid the price to learn the lesson. How many have heard the story, "I have more properties if you give me a good price", only to never hear from them again.

Joe Polish taught its not about your cleaning anyway, its about your marketing, to new clients and your existing clients. Keep the ones you already have and get more referrals.

As an O/O I'd rather do 2 jobs than 5, rather do a higher quality job than rush through, rather do it myself than worry about employees. There are pros and cons, and if I were a better "people manager", I'd probably hire the employees and deal with all that drama. And for those that say an O/O isn't in or doesn't have a busn, shame on them.

wrt per room pricing vs sf and in home quotes vs phone estimates, How many have gotten a call where they say, I've just got a couple of small rooms. When you get there, they ain't exactly "small" and they ain't exactly "clean"? I make the extra trip so I'm not surprised when I get there and in turn having to surprise them. I can give a rough guesstimate over the phone which usually gets rid of the price shoppers.

 

[Ken Snow]

So Ron would you them say that White Castle, McDonalds, Burger King, Fridays, Outback etc. are not ethical because they do not price as high and perform all the steps that Capital Grill does?

Holier than thou is fine, but reality and peoples willingness to pay is another. Excellent quality qork can and is being done every day by companies charging much less than you. Insulting their quality does nothing to diminish that and choosing to charge more is your right.

 

[joe harper]

So Ron would you them say that White Castle, McDonalds, Burger King, Fridays, Outback etc. are not ethical because they do not price as high and perform all the steps that Capital Grill does?

Holier than thou is fine, but reality and peoples willingness to pay is another. Excellent quality qork can and is being done every day by companies charging much less than you. Insulting their quality does nothing to diminish that and choosing to charge more is your right.

Ken,

What kind of excellent.."qork".. does your company provide... :?:

I personally....NEVER go for the cheapest price....When I feel the urge for a good.."qorking".. eat shit!

 

[Shane Deubell]

The goal is to have the highest margins with the volume you are comfortable with. Cant have a pricing discussion without the profit margin

.50 is meaningless if your COS are .45

 

[Ken Snow]

Excellent to the point of 100's of our customers a week sending questionnaires back telling us so- the most important opinion Joe.

 

[ruff]

So Ron would you them say that White Castle, McDonalds, Burger King, Fridays, Outback etc. are not ethical because they do not price as high and perform all the steps that Capital Grill does?

Holier than thou is fine, but reality and peoples willingness to pay is another. Excellent quality qork can and is being done every day by companies charging much less than you. Insulting their quality does nothing to diminish that and choosing to charge more is your right.

That is all true Ken,
However, McDonald, unlike some, does not claim that their food is as good as some of the upscale restaurants.

What they sell is predictable food, definitely not great (i'd say: lousy), no stomach poisoning and low price.
No claims about superior quality. And lots of advertisements and gift toys to hook the young ones.

Apples for price and oranges for quality.

 

[Ron Werner]

So Ron would you them say that White Castle, McDonalds, Burger King, Fridays, Outback etc. are not ethical because they do not price as high and perform all the steps that Capital Grill does?

Holier than thou is fine, but reality and peoples willingness to pay is another. Excellent quality qork can and is being done every day by companies charging much less than you. Insulting their quality does nothing to diminish that and choosing to charge more is your right.

If anything I am honest. Holier than thou, hardly.
People are willing to pay for "excellent" but what happens is they think they are getting excellent, the work looks a hell of a lot better than what it was, but it could have been a HELL of a LOT better still. Since they don't know any different, all is well. All the marketing is the same.

Yes, there are a lot of "good" cleaners out there, but excellent? No. They do the bare minimum to make it look clean with the least effort and time. They comprise 90% of the market, at least figuring by the cleaners I know in my area. Their marketing makes them sound just like the top 5%. (the remaining 5% are cleaners I wouldn't recommend to an enemy) At least when people go to McD's they know they are buying a laxative rather than a better place where they are buying a burger.

I've yet to see honest marketing where they say they are there to make the carpet LOOK cleaner, but they may be leaving a lot of soil load in the carpet. If you want to know what "excellent" is, just read the Standard and do what it says. Its not rocket science, but it takes a lot more time than most are willing to put in.

Excellent to the point of 100's of our customers a week sending questionnaires back telling us so- the most important opinion Joe.

No, its not excellence, but you have good marketing and follow up, your guys do what they say they will do, and it looks clean enough for your customers to be satisfied. From what you were saying your custies don't have dirty homes so any tech can do an above "average" job to please that person. I've been in homes where your techs would have left a shit load of soil in the carpet and never even know it.

But, as has been said many times, no one will argue that you don't have a good busn.

I feel like I've typed all this before, de ja vu.

 

[Lee Stockwell]

I would surmise that a company that has been immersion cleaning expensive rugs since before I or Ron was born doesn't need a lecture from a relative newbie telling them the definition of "clean".

Technicians with a decade or more experience with late model Butlers will clean most MB'ers under the table...no matter how we may stroke our own egos with talk about our excellence.

 

[Ron Werner]

Your right Lee, they've been cleaning for 32 years. What could I possibly teach them?

 

[Goldenboy]

Ron you have perfected the art of removal of dry soil. But you still have lots of work to do on the HWE side of things and dealing with housewives. Sorry but you would creep out 90 percent of my female customers. You have come out and publicly admitted to not getting red stains out and even let us know you dont have a 175 machine on your truck. I just found this out after the rankings. You also down have a rotary extractor machine on your truck and you dont see the need. The only reason I cant get u out of the top 25 is you remove a ton of dry soil. Ron you have a ton a work to do in you ever want the number 1 ranking. The problem is you think you have mastered the art of cleaning when in fact you have not.

Golden Boy

 

[bob vawter]

As a board member here (whos much smarter than he lets on) has said numerous times, its not what you MAKE, its what you KEEP.

thank you............!

 

[ACE]

I have been thinking about analogies for the value triad (price, service, quality PICK TWO) as it relates to our industry.


If carpet cleaning companies were department stores....... I would hope to be Target someday. Moderate Prices, Great Customer Service, good quality for the money.

A small operation can do well as a Dollar General or in the right demographic as a Macy’s If you want that largest market share you’re a Wal-Mart or a target. Walmart= lowest price, adequate quality, poor customer service.

Unfortunately, most owner ops operate like a garage sale lacking the organization of goodwill industries.

 

[sam miller]

The Art of Cleaning theres a concept! I thought it was work?

I like Mikes other post about lowering price to 30 to 40 cents to keep more repeats because when its all said and done resoilability is a

constant the customers have to deal with.

I think Mike sugessted that when he's getting 65 cents a foot and people dont see a difference between him and the 30 cent guy.

not becasue he didnt clean it better but carpet get dirty! People are dirty. I think one guy offers a year clean warranty on his top of the line cleaning.

Whats that mean? It means this, if You pay me 60 cents a foot as opposed to 30 cents I'll come back 2 to 3 times and do touch up during the year.

I think when we see what a rug badger does to a rug and the soil removal, anybody thinking thier upright is doing anything close to that is on crack.

But we all justify in our own minds whats best sometimes at the expense of others. I say if You can get more do more be more do it!

But as for who's the best! We all are.

 

[Ron Werner]

why would I creep out female clients? Because I'm cleaning according to the standard?
If I don't use it, I don't carry it.
So your implication is that Ken's cleaning is the ultimo, nothing beats it, they can't improve, and as long as you're in and out of a house before the custy can take a dump, that doesn't creep them out.
If that's how you're judging the top 25 I guess I don't belong on it. And I'm ok with that.

I don't need a 175 or a rotary to remove this soil and clean this carpet. All it requires is about twice the TIME and EFFORT, no fancy tools, just a good vacuum, Greenhorn, Sebo, O2, works just fine thank you very much. In fact, if I skipped the vacuuming and used the fancy tools I would have missed a significant portion of it. But it would look clean. KMA! If all you did was prespray rinse this carpet in the 10min the majority of "good" cleaners would put in, 90% of this "stuff" would remain. You can put them on your top 25.

I'm not bragging about it Sam, just saying, I have pulled more soil out of a rug after its been badgered 2 or 3 times. It just is what it is. Guess I could just shut up about it and keep it to myself but I thought I'd share it. I'm not doing anything exceptionally special except for taking longer time. I'm far from the best, many of you gents have forgotten more than I've learned. I'm probably one of the worst cleaners in here as far as busn and cleaning go, but I take my time, I remove a bunch of soil, spray it, scrub it, rinse it, and low and behold the carpet looks clean. If the subject is excellence, then why cut steps and say its "excellent"?

 

[Goldenboy]

JHC Ron Silver duct tape? Settle the fook down. First off Ronnie did not say anything about the purple truck guys. Thats your own battle. The vacuum cleaner does not lie. Holy shit thats a lot of soil. BTW majority of my custies dont have pink carpet. It explains a lot about your dying customer base. As far as the female deal. You going to have to look in the mirror. My female customers would have you on creeper status. You have to be a charmer in this biz. You cant come walkin in the custies living rook with a microscope hanging off your neck lookin for dry soil removal. When you start talking about dry soil removal to the customers and they see a rise in your khakis you got issues. Ron on the "Water" side you are in a rutt. Do you see how Mikey changes with times? He is a old bastard but he is staying on the edge with high tech cleaning methods. He even still wears hip clothes. You need to change it up once in awhile. As far as talking down about the Top 25. Dont lie. Its like carpet porn to you.

Golden Boy

 

[Jim Martin]

Ron Werner.............question....

you have been doing this for 17 years...how much longer do you think you will be pounding the carpet....what are your plans for your company once you get the point that you can no longer do it......are you going to just sell it...are you going to go the way of the Harper and hand it over to a family member and take a percentage..and your only worry of the day is if you remembered to feed your goats on time...what are your exit plans......

 

[Ken Snow]

Ron, I am sorry this has degraded and my part in that. I am sure you do a superb job for your clients, as I feel we do. As for time in the business I answered as me, not as our company. In fact I actually cleaned carpet etc., for 5.5 years, been with the company for 32.5 now and the company is in its 3rd generation now having just celebrated our 73rd anniversary. We feel we provide excellent service and value to our clients in everything we do from carpet, rug, tile & upholstery cleaning and repair to Oriental & area rug and flooring sales. I am sure you also feel you provide similar to your clients~ we can both be correct.

 

[cucu]

Ron, I am sorry this has degraded and my part in that. I am sure you do a superb job for your clients, as I feel we do. As for time in the business I answered as me, not as our company. In fact I actually cleaned carpet etc., for 5.5 years, been with the company for 32.5 now and the company is in its 3rd generation now having just celebrated our 73rd anniversary. We feel we provide excellent service and value to our clients in everything we do from carpet, rug, tile & upholstery cleaning and repair to Oriental & area rug and flooring sales. I am sure you also feel you provide similar to your clients~ we can both be correct.

Ken. are you working in the west wing now..both of you cant be right .Just call bullshit , have a fight and knock that hat off Rons head

Ron. Ken is calling you a bitoch