enlighten me.....

[Ken Snow]

Lol-I've learned a lot about tact and being respectful over my years of management mistakes.

 

[ruff]

I would surmise that a company that has been immersion cleaning expensive rugs since before I or Ron was born doesn't need a lecture from a relative newbie telling them the definition of "clean".

Technicians with a decade or more experience with late model Butlers will clean most MB'ers under the table...no matter how we may stroke our own egos with talk about our excellence.

Lee, first we found out that you too, can clean a 16 feet sectional by yourself in 40 minutes and do a great job. (what kind of secret cereal do they feed you for breakfast anyhow? eat yor heart out Werner )

Ron was not talking about immersion cleaning and how expensive the rugs are, has nothing to do with the quality of cleaning.

And now the Butlerites with 10 years experience can clean most Mb'r under the table!
Are we talking midgets here, Lee?
Why do they have to do their cleaning while being under the table?

I call bullshit (in a friendly, most respectful way that is eat yor heart out Werner).
What Ron and many of us talk about, is in comparison to the devoted Owner Operator that takes pride in their work and owning their own company. Most will have very good machine and as surely you have learned, the machine is much less important than the man working with it. Yes, the same devoted, owner operator that constantly keep fidgeting with what they do, in order to provide their clients with an even slightly better service.

A little secret for you Lee: With many, it is not only about price. I've seen Jimmy naked
Yes, not necessarily the smartest business decision, but really it is not just about business. (Gosh, I hope Steve is not reading this oh my... )

You can not change the laws of nature: When you do high volume, speedy, super efficiency cleaning, quality will suffer somewhat.

Yes, experience and efficiency will allow you to keep quality while working faster, but only to a certain limit. I want to make it clear: It does not have to be sub-par, but it will not likely be as good as the real good owners operators. It may, however, be good enough for the home owner. It may actually be good deal for them. They are getting it clean enough and the price is right. No, you can not do a great cleaning of a 16 footer, on location, by yourself in 40 minutes. Unless it was clean to begin with.

I just don't believe (no proof) for example that Ken's hired guns do as good a job as say Ron. No way, no matter what the official face of the company says on a public bulletin board.
I am sure though, that their client's get a very good return on their money. Which is what really counts and what really matters.

 

[Lee Stockwell]

In their market Hagopian IS a high end company. They have teams people who have been cleaning the better part of two decades as well, all the time with loaded late model Butlers that are fleet-maintained.

I grew up in Michigan and have friends and family there still. They verify the rep. We could learn a bit and improve OUR businesses if only we didn't ASSUME they are somehow delivering a "lesser" service than we owner-ops do.

 

[ruff]

Not "lesser" Lee.
Different!
And HighEnd is a meaningless term.

And you are absolutely right- We can and should learn.

 

[Dolly Llama]

Ken. are you working in the west wing now..both of you cant be right .Just call bullshit , have a fight and knock that hat off Rons head

Ron. Ken is calling you a bitoch

damn Irishmen ....always looking to start a fight ....
no wonder we tried to keep youinz from crossing the pond during potato famine
I've seen Jimmy naked



this thread has gotten pretty silly
this is no knock on Ken's outfit, I promise , but if we define "clean" as the absence of all foreign substance ... to suggest his crews deliver the same cleaning as an obsessive compulsive frEEk like Ron ...that massages each individual fiber bundle, is laughable

Likewise, for Ron to suggest any outfit that doesn't clean to obsessive compulsive standards is somehow doing the industry a "disservice" is equally off the mark

let each individual choose the biz model they want

But I'll tell ya'll right now, CCing (or any service biz for that matter) is less about being the "greatest CC'er ever" and more about making peeps love and trust you..at a price that fits their budget
(assuming such provider can deliver at least "acceptable" standards)


carry on


..l.T.A.

 

[ruff]

Hear hear.
Couldn't be said better.

 

[Ken Snow]

Amen MEat!

 

[Able 1]

My first 5 years I was on my own and did everything myowndamnself. By myself I could do 4 jobs a day to the best of my ability(done by 6-7pm). With a helper I can do 7-8 jobs(well I have only did 8 twice) and the same quality is there... Actually I think I can do a better job treating red spots and do a better job cleaning with a helper. :!:

Really you are limited cleaning without a helper and I understand why it would take 2.5 hours for a 6 room job..

AGAIN the same guys that say you can't clean that fast work by themselves...

 

[Chris A]

My first 5 years I was on my own and did everything myowndamnself. By myself I could do 4 jobs a day to the best of my ability(done by 6-7pm). With a helper I can do 7-8 jobs(well I have only did 8 twice) and the same quality is there... Actually I think I can do a better job treating red spots and do a better job cleaning with a helper. :!:

Really you are limited cleaning without a helper and I understand why it would take 2.5 hours for a 6 room job..

AGAIN the same guys that say you can't clean that fast work by themselves...

Theres guys here that will tell you 4 jobs a day is hack speed. Then theres guys like us that can do 5-7 with our kick ass assistants and be home by dinnertime. Theres no middle ground...

 

[Ken Snow]

Too true Chris- Hey Happy Birthday to Steph!! I'll text her too.

 

[Ron Werner]

[quote="Able 1":1a0euv6r]My first 5 years I was on my own and did everything myowndamnself. By myself I could do 4 jobs a day to the best of my ability(done by 6-7pm). With a helper I can do 7-8 jobs(well I have only did 8 twice) and the same quality is there... Actually I think I can do a better job treating red spots and do a better job cleaning with a helper. :!:

Really you are limited cleaning without a helper and I understand why it would take 2.5 hours for a 6 room job..

AGAIN the same guys that say you can't clean that fast work by themselves...

Theres guys here that will tell you 4 jobs a day is hack speed. Then theres guys like us that can do 5-7 with our kick ass assistants and be home by dinnertime. Theres no middle ground...[/quote:1a0euv6r]

Sure you can move faster with an assistant, esp if the tech is well trained and anticipates what needs doing before the other can ask. IF dual wanding, goes even quicker from what I hear.

I understand your position, but should there BE a middle ground, and if so, should the client be made aware that they are getting middle ground work? Or is the client told they are getting premium work which then reduces all levels to a commodity.

When you're doing those 5-7jobs in a day, what time would you start, how long a drive is it between jobs, how much time for setup-teardown?

Guess my challenge is I've never seen good quality work from the result of "fast work", in many industries. I've heard and seen horror stories, seen some that looks "o k" but anyone can see it could have been done better. Seen flooded carpets from techs that move a wand too fast and don't take the time to let it extract. So when I read about "excellent" work being done at 5-8jobs/day, I cringe.

 

[Jim Martin]

you don't have to be fast...to do 3 or 4 good quality jobs in a day....you just have to be on your game..be as efficient as you can....think past your nose...have the right tools for anything that you run across.....you will make more money...a better foundation...and be way further ahead...then a guy that is taking half a day to do one job......

 

[dealtimeman]

I am slow and very obsessive compulsive about cleaning( not as bad a s Ron with his vacuuming) and I can do four jobs by my self easy in a day. Just did it on Friday and if it were not so hot and I was not that out of shape I could of done one more. Techs that are out everyday working should have no problem doing 5 to even 8 jobs with a helper in a day.

If not you must be cleaning and doing some big Jobs. I tell my techs all the same thing clean as if I was standing there watching them and 99% of the time the job will turn out great. It is when you cut corners and are being lazy or ignorant that something is either left undone, done incorrecrtly or just flat out not done.

 

[Ken Snow]

X2

 

[Royal Man]

It's not just about how many jobs you can cram into a day.

With an assistant you WILL make more money on each job.

The extra help gives you a terrific opportunity to increase each job dramatically.

You can make a ton more money and not be tapped out at the end of the day. So, You are also more ready to kick ass on the following days.

Work less, make more. Not a bad thing.

 

[Jim Martin]

Work smart..not hard....make way more...is even better....

 

[Ken Snow]

And all of the above is smarter :grin:

 

[Able 1]

[quote="Chris Adkins":3cq4sby7][quote="Able 1":3cq4sby7]My first 5 years I was on my own and did everything myowndamnself. By myself I could do 4 jobs a day to the best of my ability(done by 6-7pm). With a helper I can do 7-8 jobs(well I have only did 8 twice) and the same quality is there... Actually I think I can do a better job treating red spots and do a better job cleaning with a helper. :!:

Really you are limited cleaning without a helper and I understand why it would take 2.5 hours for a 6 room job..

AGAIN the same guys that say you can't clean that fast work by themselves...

Theres guys here that will tell you 4 jobs a day is hack speed. Then theres guys like us that can do 5-7 with our kick ass assistants and be home by dinnertime. Theres no middle ground...[/quote:3cq4sby7]

It is nice getting home earlier, and I'm way less tired who cares!

Sure you can move faster with an assistant, esp if the tech is well trained and anticipates what needs doing before the other can ask. IF dual wanding, goes even quicker from what I hear.

If I was going to dual wand I would want 3 guys on the job, 2 to wand and one to pull hoses, fetch spotter, and block or tab, or IMO you are not maximizing efficiency.. If I could find a vehicle that sat 3 comfortably I would do it in a heartbeat(well I guess I could follow on a moped )

I understand your position, but should there BE a middle ground, and if so, should the client be made aware that they are getting middle ground work? Or is the client told they are getting premium work which then reduces all levels to a commodity.

In what service business do people say "well we just do cheap work" or "we do it good enough" your kidding right? Pet hair aside(then I pre-vac) I do believe that my truckmount flushes all the dirt out, how can it not with a high flow wand? (yeah, I know, I know cause the industry standard that was probably written in the 80's says so!

When you're doing those 5-7jobs in a day, what time would you start,9am

how long a drive is it between jobs I have my service area focused to a relatively small area, and book jobs the best I can to the same cities

how much time for setup-teardown?
Set up 8-10 mins, teardown as long as it takes me to do the paper work(5mins or so) LIKE!

Guess my challenge is I've never seen good quality work from the result of "fast work", in many industries. I've heard and seen horror stories, seen some that looks "o k" but anyone can see it could have been done better. Seen flooded carpets from techs that move a wand too fast and don't take the time to let it extract. So when I read about "excellent" work being done at 5-8jobs/day, I cringe.[/quote:3cq4sby7]

There is a BIG difference between being fast and being efficient!! I get dry times around 3-4 hours and we also move ALOT of furniture all if they want us to with the normal exceptions. We also do are best at any spot for FREE..

 

[ruff]

Since it seems like both sides of the argument/dicussion/polite exchange of opinions are not exactly able to hear what the other says or means. Let alone agree on much.

I suggest to sum this up:
"OY VEY!"

I already feel better now! eat yor heart out Werner

 

[Ken Snow]

Lol- I'm with you Ofer.

 

[Ron Werner]

You're right Ofer, I just can't picture moving that fast. I''d have to be on a flat out run.
I use high flow too. Knowing what's in, or could be in a carpet, I know what it will and won't remove. I guess since I don't move that fast I can't understand what you see and since you never move that slow, you never see what I do.

 

[Mardie]

I am getting a real kick out of this thread.Never heard so many people in the same industry doing the same thing BSing each other in order to justify the way they do things.To bad your client's were not on this board to put their 2cents in. If it works for you good, but don't try to say that you do high quality work when in fact you know that the only thing your good at is cheating the job and getting away with it.I have gone over many of these jobs and know the shit that is being left behind. The bottom line is that no matter what (it takes time to properly clean carpet). Can you get away with and make the client happy with a substandard cleaning. I think Yes simply because their expectations are predetermined from past experiences which is more than likely no different than what they just got.The industry norm(borderline quality at the best)I always said to myself that the splash and dashers make better money than i do. So for all you guys on this thread that are trying to fool each other,save it for someone else.

 

[Able 1]

You're right Ofer, I just can't picture moving that fast. I''d have to be on a flat out run.
I use high flow too. Knowing what's in, or could be in a carpet, I know what it will and won't remove. I guess since I don't move that fast I can't understand what you see and since you never move that slow, you never see what I do.

I should have just let the VS hack above me have the last post! Can't you rent that Von Shrader from Ace Hardware? eat shit!

BUT, I just have one more question for you Ron... Say you have a normal job and you have to move furniture,spot some things and pull your own hoses out of the way. Let say the described job take 2 hours of truck mount run time. How much time do you think your wand is on the carpet cleaning in those 2 hours?

For me once the machine is on the wand is cleaning and does not stop till the job is finished(efficiency!).. First area we do normally pre-spray with the hydro force, but after that we either pull sol. hose from the live reel for the HF, or we spray with the multi sprayer. I'm always thinking about ways to make my cleaning more efficient. Time is money!

 

[Dolly Llama]

For me once the machine is on the wand is cleaning and does not stop till the job is finished(efficiency!).. First area we do normally pre-spray with the hydro force, but after that we either pull sol. hose from the live reel for the HF, or we spray with the multi sprayer. I'm always thinking about ways to make my cleaning more efficient. Time is money!

zaccally

if all jobs were 2 rms/ hall traffic ln only jobs, the single man crew could be competitive efficiency wise
(if they didn't vac)
it's those wall to wall 1000-1500sf jobs they get stuck on ...fo-evah

It's why a 2 man choreographed crew can do QUALITY work in 1/3 the time Ron can
and make more profit in a day at 25-30 cent-o-ft than a single man @ fiddy cent ..

AND...have a LARGER pool of prospects ta boot

AND not be as beat at the end of a hot day (90 here today)

AND keep quality up

AND not have to make Mrs Phiff wait 2-3 weeks for her cleaning

















AND someone to tell fart jokes with between jobs I've seen Jimmy naked

..L.T.A.

 

[Chris A]

[quote="Able 1":dagc2h3k]

For me once the machine is on the wand is cleaning and does not stop till the job is finished(efficiency!).. First area we do normally pre-spray with the hydro force, but after that we either pull sol. hose from the live reel for the HF, or we spray with the multi sprayer. I'm always thinking about ways to make my cleaning more efficient. Time is money!

zaccally

if all jobs were 2 rms/ hall traffic ln only jobs, the single man crew could be competitive efficiency wise
(if they didn't vac)
it's those wall to wall 1000-1500sf jobs they get stuck on ...fo-evah

It's why a 2 man choreographed crew can do QUALITY work in 1/3 the time Ron can
and make more profit in a day at 25-30 cent-o-ft than a single man @ fiddy cent ..

AND...have a LARGER pool of prospects ta boot

AND not be as beat at the end of a hot day (90 here today)

AND keep quality up

AND not have to make Mrs Phiff wait 2-3 weeks for her cleaning





X1000











AND someone to tell fart jokes with between jobs I've seen Jimmy naked

..L.T.A.[/quote:dagc2h3k]

 

[Mardie]

Able 1 wrote
I should have just let the VS hack above me have the last post! Can't you rent that Von Shrader from Ace Hardware? eat shit!








I am sure their are lot's of good cleaner's on this board and i am sure that the good cleaner's understand and agree with the message in my post. The only people that would take offence to my post are the people that it would apply to such as you. You see by taking offence to that post and displaying your negative thought's about it as you have done just shows that you are not to bright, because you have just exposed yourself as a true hack/splash and dasher.

 

[Ron Werner]

In your example, 2hrs TM time with moving furn etc, incl time to prespray as well, the wand would be moving about 1-1.5hrs out of that time.

as real example, take my job today. 2 flights of 15 stairs, room and hall on main floor, 3rooms and hall on 3rd floor.
took about 1.5hrs to vacuum it
about 30min to set up and prep (prespray and scrub with a whittaker) [Oh, btw, I'll take my Whit over a 175 thank you, I can scrub stairs and get into closets and corners much better]
about 1.5hr to steam clean it.

So, from what I'm hearing, I've wasted 2hrs. I move as fast as the tools will allow me, ie I move the tools as fast as I see they are working. My old truck would overheat if I let it run too long without using water, so once the truck is running, the wand is moving as much as it can. I'll replace furn and apply protectant after I've shut down. I'm a 1 man show so I'm not trying to compete with a 2man show, but I'll still outclean 95% of the 2 man shows because their focus is on time, not the job.

Oh, Someone said their truck gets up all the soil. As I was pulling up the fine soil from this place I was wondering... How do you know? If you filled your filter I betcha there is that much more left. I made a video where I showed how a TM can miss a LOT of stuff.
Its like most people think the power stroke of a vacuum is the back stroke. Forward pass is the best pass from my experience.

 

[Able 1]

Hey when, you come to back Racine for your next "brain washing" bring that little pos you use to clean carpet and I will show you how to really clean... I take all suggestions from everyone on this board and think about all suggestions to see how they will work for me. Larry said a while back that electric sprayers cut some time off, so I tried it, and it works GREAT!! I listen to everyone, and learn every day.. YOU MIGHT WANT TO TRY TO DO THIS YOURSELF!!

There are SO many low moisture hacks out there right now(Oxyclean) my custy's first question is usually "do you have a truck mount"?

Oh, and per your last post:
"I am sure their are lot's of good cleaner's on this board"

I am confident that even the worst cleaner here will out clean you!

You currently rank 1,345,465 on Waldo's list of the best cleaners in the US!! eat shit! hey Marty, blow me

 

[ruff]

Somewhere on this thread, or was it the great beyond?
Anyhow....

When ken went all Mahatma on us and wanted to "listen more to Mardie's musings and ideas," I almost went for it. Hey, I love world peace.
Thanks Ken eat yor heart out Werner

But than I thought to myself: "When in doubt look for guidance from the great ones":

I was going to use a cart, but I need a jackass- Are you busy Mardie?

 

[Ken Snow]

LOL- too funny Ofer.