Rumors from within..

[davegillfishing]

Dave, not disputing what you say, just curious: How much will an equivalent new van and machine cost?
One that will perform roughly the same (dependability, power, heat etc.) with all the necessary doodads that the Butler comes with?

well if you break the cost of each item its a truck load less then the 70k asking price..so i see a "greenie" or someone stepping up to make a stacked unit without the massive overhead..

if butler shut down their chem division and cut back a bit on some "show" things the price could come back down to earth..

the trucks are just nor worth 70k (in my opinion)..its still a awesome rig!! just very price.

the ken snow can buy 6 at a time and maybe get better prices but the typical small 4-5 truck guy will have a tough time swinging that nut or at least i am.lol

maybe it will lead to me ordering and building my own stuff..it truly not all that hard. (not taking anything away from anyone and saying its simple) but just like building a awesome

fishing rod..you have lots of examples to follow..maybe im dreaming, maybe i will end up realizing that the price of a butler is worth every penny and that will be my future fleet rig..

lots of stuff to figure out..just gotta keep exploring and checking things out.

 

[Art Kelley]

And don't forget that a Pro1200 is a better unit than a Butler, Dave. I don't know how they compare in pricing because I haven't bought one in 10 years and my 03 will last another 10 years before I think about replacement, but there is other options in direct drive.

 

[randy]

Lets say gas does get to $6.25 a gallon, yes this will certainly effect our customers spending, nothing we can do about that but simply adding a few dollars to each invoice (undisclosed) will cover your costs.

Let me ask you guys this, how many people do you know who could ride their bicycles to work a few days a week? In my small town it's incredible how much fuel is wasted by lazy out of shape people.. Hell even my own two kids drive the one point mile to work each and every day.

When I ride my bike I have to load it up in the pick and then drive to a park or slower neighborhood. Around her it would just be dangerous. I wouldn't let my nieces or nephews ride a bike in any of the places I did growing up. When I was 10 I was delivering 400 Washington Posts on Sunday and 250 everyday. No way in hell would I want any 10 year old doing that today, too many wackos and perverts. Off course I had this little two shot 22 derringer that my parents didn't know about. God they would of been as pissed as when mom found my "first real" gun, a 1911 in the eight grade. Note to kids: don't put your gun in the same spot as your favorite Playboy. It Carries a four year sentence in a Christian school with a shitty football team.

 

[hogjowl]

Sounds like you're proud of being stupid.

 

[randy]

As others have said, we're never going to run out of oil. The oil companies want us to think there's a shortage, just like the old military industrial complex wanted us to be afraid of the Russians. As long as we have a weak President, or one that will sacrifice the middle class to push an eco-agenda, we'll have high gas prices. Since the abundance of natural gas is already changing the economics of the fuel industry, and the oil companies can't count on a weak administration every time, all of them are currently scrambling to diversify. They know it won't be long before they won't be able to fake any more oil shortages. As The Who said, "let's forget them better still."

You hit on something here that is unfortunately totally true. A few years ago I did a move out for a retired Air Force fighter squadron commander. He would fly intercept missions out of Alaska and meet Russian Backfire bombers loaded with nuclear weapons testing our air defenses. This was in the mid eighties during the height of the Cold War bantering. One day this Russian crew fluent in english started talking to him as he escorted them out of our air space. All they wanted to know was if he had ever been to the castle, specifically DISNEY LAND. They knew all about it and started asking if he rode space mountain and went into the hunted mansion. A few flights before he retired he asked what their payload was and they said, " oh we don't haul them (nuclear weapons) around anymore because of budget restrictions. It takes too much petrol ".

Then of course there is the evil North Koran dictator that is threatening to fire missiles into the US. He is obsessed with NASCAR , the NBA and Bruce Springsteen. I have to agree with Dennis Rodmen on this one. There is something a little less than scary about a dictator that "hates " the United States running around singing BORN IN THE USA! I WAS BORN.....

i say send him a NASCAR racing car, invite him to the United States for a Concert and a few basket ball games. Time to drop this whole military industrial complex mentality of always having to have an enemy, that is a REAL , LONG TERM THREAT. It's such bullshit and a humongous waste of money.

 

[davegillfishing]

john..they got me a 100 gallon water tank and a lp tank..then changed a blower elbow, a vac gauge and changed the throttle assembly to a better one..

i wanted them to go through it with a fine tooth comb as i described to them..i just wanted to pick it up and start rocking and rolling the next day..no way possible though.

i had all the hose and everything here and ready to go but had to re rout a bunch of hoses that were swinging because of not being long enough..they were the hoses that came with the maching

but i would have expected (because i asked for a perfect install) that they all would have been replaced..

no oil change in blower, pump, machine..i thing they fired it up..listened to it and said...cool.

thats not what i asked for..i asked for the heater to be rebuilt to be positive it was perfect...

the darn temp gauge doesnt work..

when i noticed the pl tank was loose i climbed under the truck and saw no lock washers or lock tight just nuts and bolts..

i have pics if anyone wants to call bs on it too..

like i said..awesome machine that will run forever but the install really left a bad taste in my mouth.

sad thing is i truly feel that dick and less are great people with a great machine just lack of quality control on the install..

i for sure way over paid for the install but what do ya do..live learn and move on.

art..i am surly going to pound the streets hard for a direct drive and check them out..

mike..i wish you lived closer too lol.

i dont have time to screw around with this thing and run the company and fish lol

actually i had a shake up with a employee..he altered his check and gave himself a 200 dollar bonus lol..he's fired but i am filling his shoes

till we train the new guy..and that takes a while..

 

[davegillfishing]

And don't forget that a Pro1200 is a better unit than a Butler, Dave. I don't know how they compare in pricing because I haven't bought one in 10 years and my 03 will last another 10 years before I think about replacement, but there is other options in direct drive.

your butler is a 03?

my oldest is a 07 cand has 5300 hrs on the machine..the van has 120k on it and im hoping to get a few more years before a rebuild on the engine..
the butler has been bullet proof and thats what really rips me up about not getting another one..i just have a tough time spending that kind of coin
but the long term value is there..its just the initial investment lol

we are pretty much a debt free company and im trying to keep it that way..so i would have to save up for a year to cash out on a butler system..

have you done any engine work to your van?

specs on unit and van if you dont mind?
thanks

 

[FB7777]

Dave,

I'm all for saving money .

A 2007 Butler System with 5300 hours has made you serious money, and has a respectable resale value to boot

Whether you purchase a Butler or other unit, the $25-30K new van is the same.

A fully decked brand new Butler will cost about $35,000... You may save 10 grand at best ( not chump change, but amortized over the 7 service years , your talking about $1500 a year if you purchase a slide-in

Nobody needs to sell you on the reliability of the Butler, and I'm sure your guys are comfortable with these units

A reconditioned Butler in a brand new van will save you $5,000 over new. The reconditioned units are top noth from my experience

 

[randy]

When I got into this industry 22 years ago a Butler was $8,900 installed. Vans really shot up in price in the late 90s ,Detroit figured out that a bunch of industries really have no other option and must use a van.

$35,000 is way too much for a design from the 1970s

Has the price for carpet cleaning gone up at these levels ?
Are you charging four times what you were 22 years ago ?

That is the real issue, add in the health care costs for employees and we are going to have some challenges.

 

[FB7777]

That $8,900 figure should be compared with the $23,900 of today

$8,900 didnt include package 1,2, and 3 or any other options

My first Butler unit in 2002 had a base price of $15,900 and topped out $21,000 including options

 

[Art Kelley]

your butler is a 03?

my oldest is a 07 cand has 5300 hrs on the machine..the van has 120k on it and im hoping to get a few more years before a rebuild on the engine..
the butler has been bullet proof and thats what really rips me up about not getting another one..i just have a tough time spending that kind of coin
but the long term value is there..its just the initial investment lol

we are pretty much a debt free company and im trying to keep it that way..so i would have to save up for a year to cash out on a butler system..

have you done any engine work to your van?

specs on unit and van if you dont mind?
thanks

I've only had the Pro1200s Dave, two of them. My 87 I put 20K hours on it and my current 03 has about 10K hours on it and 115K miles. Solid as a rock machines. Roots 56 blower, Cat pump, 240 degree dual HXs, all pretty much the same as your Butlers. I looked at Butlers in 87 but they didn't offer the #5 blower like WM did just #4. The Butler salesman told me #5 blowers wouldn't work in the direct drive setup. LOL.

 

[hogjowl]

I have always wondered if there are any cleaners who use a Butler without the options?

 

[Mikey P]

I had the shelves, filter box and reels

No fresh tank. Extra heat was not an option then

 

[hogjowl]

I was actually speaking of the packages 1,2 and 3.

 

[KevinL]

IMO everyone needs to provide/offer health benefits if they are going to expect to employ competent people who will stay with you a while.

How much does that cost you Ken? per person average please.

 

[Goldenboy]

Mikey got smart and left the Brain Washed Butler Boyz. He never went back. Should tell ya sumptin. Speakin of Brainwashed ask the Feehan Sisters about their huge blower on their Prochem. Them Prochem Boyz have a weird way of puttin Large numbers on their Teenie wennie little Blowers. LOL.

Golden Boy

 

[Ken Snow]

How much does that cost you Ken? per person average please.

$3000-$7000 for this plan year depending on their status (single, couple, family).

 

[davegillfishing]

You are right. We have made over a million dollars with just basic maint and no down time.

It's tough to argue that point but when it comes time to write a 70k dollar check its just a tough pill to swallow.

I just may be the pill that I do swallow though.

I want to check out your units as well

I used to run the steam genie years ago (20) and was not at all happy with them at all!!

 

[idreadnought]

well if you break the cost of each item its a truck load less then the 70k asking price..so i see a "greenie" or someone stepping up to make a stacked unit without the massive overhead..

if butler shut down their chem division and cut back a bit on some "show" things the price could come back down to earth..

the trucks are just nor worth 70k (in my opinion)..its still a awesome rig!! just very price.

the ken snow can buy 6 at a time and maybe get better prices but the typical small 4-5 truck guy will have a tough time swinging that nut or at least i am.lol

maybe it will lead to me ordering and building my own stuff..it truly not all that hard. (not taking anything away from anyone and saying its simple) but just like building a awesome

fishing rod..you have lots of examples to follow..maybe im dreaming, maybe i will end up realizing that the price of a butler is worth every penny and that will be my future fleet rig..

lots of stuff to figure out..just gotta keep exploring and checking things out.

Do not build your own. That process will cost you a fortune. I have built two machines. Finished one in january. When the final price tag was done I could of purchase a reliable machine and completely rebuilt it for much less. Also I have had some big issues with the machine. From fabrication to assemble the stuff that needed a little changing went on forever. pm me if you have questions but you will have much less hassle to find an old performer 405 and rebuild it top to bottom, Less hassle, proven design.

 

[Mikey P]

what were you hoping to accomplish Richard?


lower price? better performance? better reliability? or just something to do....

 

[steve g]

you guys that love butlers, do you ever stand back and think HOW IN THE HELL is the machine taking up the entire area of the inside of the van?? I know they are great machines but I think butler does a piss poor job of using the available space inside the van. why can't the console/control panel be mounted over a fresh or waste tank in a manner similar to say a judson machine?? the reels that bulter uses takes up an insane amount of space. its like they thought how can we make this thing take up all the area so people think they are buying more.

I think the truckmount industry as a whole is suffering. I don't see that many people rolling around with brand new machines. I have to wonder if most of the cleaners who were going to move away from portable have done so and those guys looking to move from a portable or something else are just buying a used machine. maybe there is enough of a supply of machines out there that guys are fixing old ones and or buying used machines. go back 20 years what % of cleaners used a TM vs now. HWE has become a lot more popular. my point is maybe most people have already bought the machine or machines they are going to buy.

 

[ruff]

you guys that love butlers, do you ever stand back and think HOW IN THE HELL is the machine taking up the entire area of the inside of the van?? I know they are great machines but I think butler does a piss poor job of using the available space inside the van. why can't the console/control panel be mounted over a fresh or waste tank in a manner similar to say a judson machine?? the reels that bulter uses takes up an insane amount of space. its like they thought how can we make this thing take up all the area so people think they are buying more.

Absolutely right.

Buttler must be as stubborn as hack, I don't see any other explanation. With a little more effort and attention, they could have made much better use of the space available without compromising anything.

That's why I'll never buy one, unless they make them more space efficient.
Dah!?

 

[FB7777]

Can't argue with you about the space SteveG.

I decided to go with Butler originally because of the fit and finish, their facility and from hands on use and what other owners had to say about their experience

Hydramaster beats them hands down on layout, but I'm so familiar with Butlers that it would hard to switch

 

[davegillfishing]

Fred that very well may be what my problem is.

Butler sets the bar pretty high and its tough to impossible to beat their customer service and dedication to perfection and it shows. The attention to detail is stunning for sure.

They may have set the bar a bit high.

I have no problem with layout. I have a cimex, vac, water claw, all cleaning tools extra hose and all loaded and not Crammed in. I run extended 1 ton vans to though.
All trucks have the 220 waste tank and the aux fresh water tank next to the main 120? Gallon fresh water tank. So we are loaded to the balls on all trucks.

 

[Shane Deubell]

You can buy a pre-owned butler with 10k miles or whatever for $40k not $70k...

Not to anyone specifically but in general i think people add trucks before they fill up the ones they have. Seems to be some swinging d!ck metric or something, every guy you ever meet first question is "how many trucks do you have?"

From what i can see the expense of a butler is not really the problem but too low of revenue per butler.

 

[clean image]

what's max water pressure on a new butler? I did not see it listed on website

 

[FB7777]

You can buy a pre-owned butler with 10k miles or whatever for $40k not $70k...

Not to anyone specifically but in general i think people add trucks before they fill up the ones they have. Seems to be some swinging d!ck metric or something, every guy you ever meet first question is "how many trucks do you have?"

From what i can see the expense of a butler is not really the problem but too low of revenue per butler.

Well out comes my Johnson, cause if you can find me a Butler with 10k miles for 40 grand then Ill buy it today

I could sell my 2005 with 90k miles for $25 grand in a heartbeat

Too low a revenue level with a Butler?

$270 K with my Butler last year and Only ran it 700 hours

 

[Shane Deubell]

Well out comes my Johnson, cause if you can find me a Butler with 10k miles for 40 grand then Ill buy it today

I could sell my 2005 with 90k miles for $25 grand in a heartbeat

Too low a revenue level with a Butler?

$270 K with my Butler last year and Only ran it 700 hours

Fred you have to call them for a quote, they cannot control what used vans are available at any given time in history or at what price. If you buy a reconditioned butler with a used van should be in the 40's but you might have to be patient, the market is constantly changing.

 

[FB7777]

I understand that Shane, I was taking you at the literal word.

"Should be in the 40's" is not 40K

Without qualifying what you get at a certain price point , the cost figure gets a bit muddy

Bottom line is a Butler System in a van with only 10k is gonna run you around 50k not 40K.

Reconditioned systems are definitely a way to save dough


I have a quote from Butler on my desk for a new system that is priced at $64,000 so I assume the quoted price of $70k that Dave Gill mentioned is a fully loaded van and fully optioned Butler System

I'm a big fan of Butler and yes the equipment is expensive, but when numbers are just thrown out there it will no time before someone claims you need to drain your 401k to purchase a new Butler

 

[Chris A]

Well out comes my Johnson, cause if you can find me a Butler with 10k miles for 40 grand then Ill buy it today

I could sell my 2005 with 90k miles for $25 grand in a heartbeat

Too low a revenue level with a Butler?

$270 K with my Butler last year and Only ran it 700 hours

"My personal truck will gross about $230,000 this year, granted I could have done more but I'm getting old and uninspired the past few years"

You must have had a hell of a December!