Who DOESN'T sell protectors?

[rhyde]

My main issue with protector is it's not a cure all or substituent for timely cleaning.

It's played itself out at my shop more than a few times where the consumer forgoes timely cleaning because they have been sold
"the invisible shield" and wait too long to have the pet urine flushed out of their rug or yeah it's getting
dirty but I have soil retardant so I let it go a little longer. Soil retarding does nothing to protect from abrasive particulate soil
that builds up in the base of carpet and rugs.

What you tell the customer and what the costumer perceives are two different things. Often customers when they ask what
would you do I tell them; I don't use protector on my rugs or carpet at home never have and with kids 7 & 9, wife
and two pets I don't have any spill or spots we couldn't get out we vacuum often and clean when needed.


http://www2.dupont.com/Teflon_Advanced_ ... _dirt.html

 

[Brian H]

Willy P, I honor your personal decision to not sell any type of products that you feel cause harm to the consumer. Just don't try and justify the fact that if by using the "would you drink it" logic!!

As far as the links you supplied, try this one on:

http://www.bidness.com/esd/showering.htm

I hope you aren't suggesting that we also forgo showering...

You can find information to back up any arguement you have on the internet.

 

[Willy P]

No comment on the upsale reducing financial losses incurred from lowball cleaning prices? Tell me again that if it wasn't for the magic protector that your business model would be successful? Of course it wouldn't. I asked a few questions about PPE for the techs and customers -as required by the manufacturer- you skipped right over them. Why?

Wait for the crickets.

 

[truckmount girl]

Never sold it unless a custy insisted on it. I don't think it has value on older carpet, and to spray it at recommended application rates wets the carpet too much.

Take care,
Lisa

 

[Brian H]

Yep, you got me on the PPE for the techs and customers... though I don't know of anyone that wears it when applying 3M Scotchgard...

As to whether we would succeed without offering protector to SOME of our customers, well I can tell you that in 2011 our on-location division did right at about $4,000,000 in just cleaning.

If we follow your model though, we should raise our rates so that ALL our customers pay the higher rate.

 

[Willy P]

How much were the ups on the 4 large? What % was protector? Wouldn't you have some serious reservations about your employees sucking that crap into their systems all day? Did you realize you;re not in compliance with the state?
It took me all of 25 seconds to read that:

Safety and Health

The Michigan Occupational Safety and Health Act (MIOSHA) protects employees from dangers in the workplace. While many of the provisions in the state law are similar to federal standards, MIOHSA further enforces a system to examine the causes of workplace injury and illness in order to develop ways to prevent such instances. Many employers are obligated to keep updated records concerning on the job health and safety. One of the ways Michigan ensures worker safety is through the Employee Right-to-Know program. The procedure informs workers of all hazardous chemicals they may come in contact with while on the job, including specific labeling of chemical containers and a data sheet explaining safe handling of hazardous materials.


More here:

http://www.michigan.gov/documents/CIS_W ... 7844_7.pdf

 

[Willy P]

And you might want to thank me for pointing that out. It might save you some troubles down the road.

 

[Brian H]

Willy,

The dollar figures I gave you were for CLEANING only.

Thank you, you certainly do your homework!!! I am constantly amazed at the information that is available on the intenet.

Oh and we have had 2 different MiOSHA inspections in the last 10 years and we are in compliance.

Stop in some time when you are in the area and I will be happy to show you every part of our operation.

Now if there are no further questions, I really do need to get back to work...

 

[Jim Martin]

Actually the opposite is true. They call because it clean up so well and they were amazed.

I have never had a call for lack of performance or a re-do for protector.

Many of your post you state you are scared of clients calling you back on protector jobs.

If my experience counts. You have nothing to worry about.

I just doesn't happen.

Has anybody been overloaded by re-dos on jobs where the client bought protector?

Or even had one call back?

I haven't ever had one in thirty years.

You might be scared of a boogie man that doesn't exist.

even the best of us get call backs...we try hard not to..but it is just the nature of the beast....

I have gotten further in 9 short years..just by being honest..

 

[truckmount girl]

l]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rx0ADvprnokl]

Put the protector on a balled up piece of paper (more like the texture of pile carpet) and walk on it for six months, THEN pour the coffee on.

Take care,
Lisa

 

[The Great Oz]

This is a great thread! So many viewpoints and opinions!

For those that believe protectants are a worthless scam, tell me why the carpet mills spend millions of dollars applying them to all fiber types? Is it because they have excess profit they need to dispose of or could it be they have labs and have done some testing?

They are not created equal, and value differs depending on how much you charge, the fiber, and carpet use, but they work.

In thirty years in the biz I've heard lots of claims and tested lots of products on real-world carpet of all types. I've seen what works and what doesn't. I use fluorochemicals on my own carpets and rugs so I get to be the cool and calm host when a guest spills something. I've applied protectant to the nastiest carpet even if the customer won't pay for it, just to save my own backside on future cleanings.

Here's a critical things to remember; what you've decided to believe about protectants doesn't matter. Not one bit. If you're part of the cult of I Hate Protectors, facts won't change your mind, but they might keep others from joining. How protectors work is provable. It's science.

 

[ruff]

This is a great thread! So many viewpoints and opinions!

For those that believe protectants are a worthless scam, tell me why the carpet mills spend millions of dollars applying them to all fiber types? Is it because they have excess profit they need to dispose of or could it be they have labs and have done some testing?

Neither you nor anybody else here knows what deals are done between the mills and small, charitable, with no financial interest whatsoever, companies like DuPont. There may be large financial interests involved (what a shocker!) The mills do it because.........?

In thirty years in the biz I've heard lots of claims and tested lots of products on real-world carpet of all types. I've seen what works and what doesn't. I use fluorochemicals on my own carpets and rugs so I get to be the cool and calm host when a guest spills something. I've applied protectant to the nastiest carpet even if the customer won't pay for it, just to save my own backside on future cleanings.

Being a cool calm host is good. Congrats! There are other ways to achieve it though, some may be grown locally, legally and potentially organically, in back woods near you

Here's a critical things to remember; what you've decided to believe about protectants doesn't matter. Not one bit. If you're part of the cult of I Hate Protectors, facts won't change your mind, but they might keep others from joining. How protectors work is provable. It's science.

It has been logically and scientifically proven that applying Fluorochemical onto the carpet, is adding one more chemical into an already chemically over loaded indoor environment. That my friend is provable. That my friend is science.

If you choose to call all the legitimate concerns raised about long term accumulation of these chemicals in our bodies and organs (proven scientifically,) due to long term exposure, junk science, that is perfectly your choice. It is what you have convinced yourself and I respect that.

Just don't tell us that your decision is scientific.
Yogi Berra said: "Cause it ain't!"

 

[GeneMiller]

Over 80% on carpets close to 100% on furniture. No wonder most of you are broke dick carpet cleaners. Water based here

Gene

 

[Ken Snow]

X2, 3 & 4 lol

Sent from my DROIDX using Tapatalk 2

 

[ruff]

I am willing to bet that from the O/O in this discussion the ones who actually don't push it are less of the broke dick variety than the others.

Some, however, seem to need the up sell to make it. Or that it is part of their corporate identity, as in: "don't leave money on the table."
Every day I see client's money left on the table, on their dressers, on top of beds......
And shame on me, I leave it right there. On the table.

I must be crazy.

X2, 3 %4 lol ?????

 

[Ken Snow]

That is good you do Ofer as that would be stealing. Offering a valuable product/service to customers is smart business. Like Bryan said, no one is going to change a mind that is convinced that protectors are bad, regardless of reality.

Sent from my DROIDX using Tapatalk 2

 

[Royal Man]

Newsflash!!!!!!!

Selling is not evil.

 

[truckmount girl]

This is a great thread! So many viewpoints and opinions!

For those that believe protectants are a worthless scam, tell me why the carpet mills spend millions of dollars applying them to all fiber types? Is it because they have excess profit they need to dispose of or could it be they have labs and have done some testing?

They are not created equal, and value differs depending on how much you charge, the fiber, and carpet use, but they work.

In thirty years in the biz I've heard lots of claims and tested lots of products on real-world carpet of all types. I've seen what works and what doesn't. I use fluorochemicals on my own carpets and rugs so I get to be the cool and calm host when a guest spills something. I've applied protectant to the nastiest carpet even if the customer won't pay for it, just to save my own backside on future cleanings.

Here's a critical things to remember; what you've decided to believe about protectants doesn't matter. Not one bit. If you're part of the cult of I Hate Protectors, facts won't change your mind, but they might keep others from joining. How protectors work is provable. It's science.

Protector works great when applied to new carpet at the mills in controlled conditions. On older carpet, at the rates most apply them in order not to re/overwet the carpet with a human spraying it down......not so much.

Take care,
Lisa

 

[ruff]

That is good you do Ofer as that would be stealing. Offering a valuable product/service to customers is smart business. Like Bryan said, no one is going to change a mind that is convinced that protectors are bad, regardless of reality.

Sent from my DROIDX using Tapatalk 2

Thanks Ken. May I use you as a reference?

Like Yogi said, convincing oneself that whatever pads the bottom line is actually good for the client, is not reality, it's called: wishful thinking.

 

[Jim Martin]

so for those who use/sell protector.....what kind of guarantee do you offer with it......

 

[KevinL]

If you don't think Scotchgard works, visit the Stanley Steemer headquarters in Ohio. I'm not sure it's still there but when I went there in the 90's the front hallway was always protected on one half while the other half was not. Guess what. The unprotected side was trashed. The protected side looked pretty good for it's age. There was a BIG difference. I had a customer just this morning ask for it on her white carpet because it slowed down the traffic lane dirt when I applied it last time. Test it yourself on a job that you do frequently. Treat one side for several cleanings and see the difference. If you keep your sprayer low while you apply it you can't even smell it so you're probably not breathing it. And you do know that we're trying to fill the dye sites of the fiber so they don't accept other colored dyes as in fruit and drinks.

 

[Bee Busy]

so when the fiber is somewhat broken down by abrasion (vacuuming...extraction... friction) how does this "miracle" product sucessfully bond to a broken down fiber? tell that please all of u guys with experience? carpet protector is for the big companies that sell it and move on to the next sucker that gets hosed for it...sorry 5 plus van guys...not to mention breathing in airborne liquid plastic if u don't wear a respirator

 

[sam miller]

I was getting teflon advanced from chemspec delivered to my house at distributor prices.

So i wold sell it at $10.00 per room make a little and use when a customer requested it.

Did a job for a lady and sprayed it everywhere the next day she caled with an emergency her autistic daughter was helping with

putting things back and broke a whole bottle of wine in the dinning room. Red wine I went over did a light steam and it all came out.

I love stain blocker that clear dye that keeps the red out.

I charged her $50 for my minimum

at the time and she gave $200 cash.

Even of you dont like the soil repellent side the stain resistant stuff works.

 

[Jim Nelson]

I was getting teflon advanced from chemspec delivered to my house at distributor prices.

So i wold sell it at $10.00 per room make a little and use when a customer requested it.

Did a job for a lady and sprayed it everywhere the next day she caled with an emergency her autistic daughter was helping with

putting things back and broke a whole bottle of wine in the dinning room. Red wine I went over did a light steam and it all came out.

I love stain blocker that clear dye that keeps the red out.

I charged her $50 for my minimum

at the time and she gave $200 cash.

Even of you dont like the soil repellent side the stain resistant stuff works.

so for those who use/sell protector.....what kind of guarantee do you offer with it......

This is my guarantee when this happens I come and clean for free.

 

[Ken Snow]

Willy & Ofer

I am not sure why this or any arguement needs to degrade into insults, rather than simply disagreement o an issue. Maybe this is why so many wars happen in the world. Other than a price point, which by the way is very typical in metro detroit, you know nothing about our company or the 10's of thousands of repeat customers we have every year. Why not make your points without resulting to insults? I have never accused you or anyone else of "ripping" customers off for selling a commodity like carpet cleaning for what I would personally consider a small fortune. The price you or anyone charges is your business and whether or not people will pay it is theirs. We provide an exceptional service and will clean and protect with 3Mm Scotchgard 4 rooms a hall and flight of stairs for under $220 and have repeat customers that have used us for 3 & 4 generations of their family.

Do what you want and believe what you want but please don't insult our business integrity. My mom use to say when you point a finget at someone you have 3 pointing back at yourself.

 

[Jim Martin]

[quote="sam miller":1r4il0u8]I was getting teflon advanced from chemspec delivered to my house at distributor prices.

So i wold sell it at $10.00 per room make a little and use when a customer requested it.

Did a job for a lady and sprayed it everywhere the next day she caled with an emergency her autistic daughter was helping with

putting things back and broke a whole bottle of wine in the dinning room. Red wine I went over did a light steam and it all came out.

I love stain blocker that clear dye that keeps the red out.

I charged her $50 for my minimum

at the time and she gave $200 cash.

Even of you dont like the soil repellent side the stain resistant stuff works.

so for those who use/sell protector.....what kind of guarantee do you offer with it......

This is my guarantee when this happens I come and clean for free.[/quote:1r4il0u8]

is there a time limit...

 

[Jimmy L]

Now just think of plastic polymer ENCAPULATION SHAMPOOS and getting that in your bloodstream and HVAC systems over time.


:shock:

 

[Willy P]

Willy & Ofer

I am not sure why this or any arguement needs to degrade into insults, rather than simply disagreement o an issue. Maybe this is why so many wars happen in the world. Other than a price point, which by the way is very typical in metro detroit, you know nothing about our company or the 10's of thousands of repeat customers we have every year. Why not make your points without resulting to insults? I have never accused you or anyone else of "ripping" customers off for selling a commodity like carpet cleaning for what I would personally consider a small fortune. The price you or anyone charges is your business and whether or not people will pay it is theirs. We provide an exceptional service and will clean and protect with 3Mm Scotchgard 4 rooms a hall and flight of stairs for under $220 and have repeat customers that have used us for 3 & 4 generations of their family.

Do what you want and believe what you want but please don't insult our business integrity. My mom use to say when you point a finget at someone you have 3 pointing back at yourself.

HUH?- Where did you get that shit from? A few salient questions Ken :

1) - Are you giving your employees proper education and personal protection as required by state law?
2) - Is it really possible to send a 2 man crew out, pay them living wages, pay off the gas sucking Butlers and office staff and all other related overhead - at $99 for 4 areas - without a hard sales line?
3) - Has your company ever sold protector on olefin? If yes, why?

I clearly make you uncomfortable with my points. As for the "insults" , I re-read this entire thread and (for me) I think I've been very diplomatic. Did I strike a nerve or are you just sensitive about the subject?

And as to insulting business integrity - Who posted this?
"Holy crap- some days our guys will go through 2 per truck! You guys are leaving a lot of $ on the table and not serving your customers well in my opinion." (see 3 fingers pointing back?)
"This thread is getting beyond ridiculous!!!

Willy doesn't apply protector because he claims it's not safe and healthy. Being safe and HEALTHY are 2 separate things!! His justification is that you wouldn't drink some. Willy, I wonder how often you drink hair shampoo? Or toilet bowl cleaner? Or latex paint? Or aftershave?

I lost track on who said they don't appy protector because it's ripping customers off, then suggested to raise the cleaning rates if they aren't making enough on each job. So in other words, every customer has to pay the higher rates, even the ones that didn't have a want/need for protector. Who is ripping people off now?

We have tested the protector we use several times over the years and yes, it does work.

_________________
Remember, it's not in the destination, it's in The Journey!


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Ken Snow
Post subject: Re: Who DOESN'T sell protectors?
PostPosted: Wed May 23, 2012 4:48 am
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Joined: Sat Oct 07, 2006 9:18 am
Posts: 5382
Location: MI, Metro Detroit
First Name: Ken
Last Name: Snow

X2

Who's insulting who?

 

[Willy P]

And if you want to be insulted, let me know.........

 

[ruff]

Willy & Ofer

I am not sure why this or any arguement needs to degrade into insults, rather than simply disagreement o an issue. Maybe this is why so many wars happen in the world. Other than a price point, which by the way is very typical in metro detroit, you know nothing about our company or the 10's of thousands of repeat customers we have every year. Why not make your points without resulting to insults? I have never accused you or anyone else of "ripping" customers off for selling a commodity like carpet cleaning for what I would personally consider a small fortune. The price you or anyone charges is your business and whether or not people will pay it is theirs. We provide an exceptional service and will clean and protect with 3Mm Scotchgard 4 rooms a hall and flight of stairs for under $220 and have repeat customers that have used us for 3 & 4 generations of their family.

Do what you want and believe what you want but please don't insult our business integrity. My mom use to say when you point a finget at someone you have 3 pointing back at yourself.

:shock: :shock: :shock:
Say what Ken?
I looked back on all my posts to see if there's a there there.
There isn't.
No insult or accusation. The only thing that I could find was this:

I am willing to bet that from the O/O in this discussion the ones who actually don't push it are less of the broke dick variety than the others.

Some, however, seem to need the up sell to make it. Or that it is part of their corporate identity, as in: "don't leave money on the table."
Every day I see client's money left on the table, on their dressers, on top of beds......
And shame on me, I leave it right there. On the table.

I must be crazy.

That however, Ken is a quote from you. Face it, you don't like leaving money on the table. and upsells is a big part of your business model. It is not an accusation, it is from many of your quotes.

and there is this:

[quote="Ken Snow":17v6fm91]That is good you do Ofer as that would be stealing. Offering a valuable product/service to customers is smart business. Like Bryan said, no one is going to change a mind that is convinced that protectors are bad, regardless of reality.

Sent from my DROIDX using Tapatalk 2

Thanks Ken. May I use you as a reference?

Like Yogi said, convincing oneself that whatever pads the bottom line is actually good for the client, is not reality, it's called: wishful thinking.[/quote:17v6fm91]

You paint the people who have a legitimate concern about introducing another chemical to an already chemically overloaded indoor environment as some sort of loonies, cuckoo, mad, bonkers, crazy, conspiracy buffs.
and I think that: "convincing oneself that whatever pads the bottom line is actually good for the client, is not reality, it's called: wishful thinking."
Big deal, Ken, Just the other side of the coin you've been flipping. And yes, beside your many posts here about how you run your business, I don't know anything from personal experience about your business. I do know though (again from your posts) that you expect a certain amount of up sell from your techs.

And regarding those three fingers, as long as there is no middle finger involved I am fine with it

And lookie lookie who's making what satements:

Holy crap- some days our guys will go through 2 per truck! You guys are leaving a lot of $ on the table and not serving your customers well in my opinion.

P.S. "And why beholdest thou the mote that is in thy brother's eye, but considerest not the beam that is in thine own eye?
That was from the King James translation, in case you are classically inclined.
Here is the other one: "Why do you look at the speck of sawdust in your brother's eye and pay no attention to the plank in your own eye?

As you ask us ken, please apply as well.