Who DOESN'T sell protectors?

[Ken Snow]

1. Yes, Brian addressed that
2. Yes we are profitable with or without selling prtector
3. Yes, though certainly not as much and it works!

If my comments were in any way construed as insults to your integrity then I regret that. I was mearly trying to point out that in my opinion not offering protector is a dis-service. I stand by that but do not mean you do not have integrity, I am certain you do and believe you are passionate about your belief that protector is not of value.

Ken

Sent from my DROIDX using Tapatalk 2

 

[truckmount girl]

Look guys, get real. Protector works wonderfully (for a time) when applied at the factory. It also works great applied to greige goods, paper, popsicle sticks, etc, for demo purposes.

But old carpet is not the same as above. And humans don't apply it at the even and consistent and heavy rates it is in the above. You all know damn well if you are using water-based and applying at recommended rates per sq. ft. it will make your dry times increase drastically. We also know the homeowner usually won't or can't stay off the carpet until dry and the traffic on it while it's wet for an extended time is not good for the curing and adhesion of the product, tracking in dirt off of feet and slip and fall hazards.

Those of you who truly believe that protector has real value and should be applied to all jobs, why not include it in your price, apply to every job and be real with your pricing like someone (Mardie?) above said that they do? Instead of advertising a $99/4 room price. If it's not going to be done correctly without protector....why not simply include it and advertise $199 (or whatever the bill would be with protector) for 4 rooms?

Take care,
Lisa

 

[ruff]

Ken??

Not Sent from my DROIDX using Tapatalk 2

 

[Ken Snow]

Lisa- I pretty much disagree with everything you wrote and prefer not to be told what I "know damn well".

Sent from my DROIDX using Tapatalk 2

 

[truckmount girl]

and prefer not to be told what I "know damn well".

Sorry, it's the wife in me coming out....LOL.

But really, if you feel it is so valuable and essential to a good job, why not include it and adjust your price accordingly?
If you aren't soaking the carpet with protector, how can you be certain you are coating the entire fiber? If you're only coating the tips are you really protecting anything?

This debate has been on the boards since the days of Cleanfax and I was challenged to do some comparison. My carpet is olefin berber, so couldn't lay it down here and get a good comparison. So, we did it on half the dining/family room and especially half the hallway in some of our regular and frequent clients, and noticed no difference. We tried both the super soak (application rate recommended on the bottle) and a lighter spray like most really do and found no difference. We tried three different protectors, Bridgepoint, ScotchGuard and CTI's. This was probably in 2005, so maybe the product has changed a lot.

If you ask me, the best "stainguard" is solution dyed carpet. I always recommend it to people with kids and pets or who entertain/spill a lot.

Take care,
Lisa

 

[The Great Oz]

If the nuns taught me one thing, it was tolerance of other's beliefs. Even if I think some of your customers would be better served if you offered a protector, your choice is your choice. You just can't argue that everyone should believe what you do, as you end up taking an indefensible position that you are then forced to defend.

We've paid to have our products and procedure tested by Argus Pacific, a local OSHA compliance training and testing facility. We used water and solvent carried products, applied with a 6008 tip at low pressure. They found that there was no electronically detectable drift of product away from the spray stream and use of a respirator when applying was not required or suggested. But, there I go pushing that science thing again.

We offer Teflon and some private label products that use Zonyl, the DuPont in-house name for their fluorochemical. We sell it for .19 psf and offer no guarantees. "It helps carpet stay better lookiing longer, and can allow you time to blot up a spill before it becomes a stain. If you kick over a coffeepot and leave it, you're probably going to have to call us to get the stain out." We often suggest just treating the high-use areas rather than every square foot. It's an option that about half our customers want, even here in maximum hair-tearing-anti-chemical-shreiking Seattle.

 

[Desk Jockey]

I toured a carpet mill back in the 80's and the carpet protector at that time was applied with a low pressure spray bar. Nothing fancy, looked like an ag type sprayer. I was even more disappointing was that it was going on after the carpet it had cooled down.

I had delusions of grandure, large open dye sites to hold the protector while open from the heat in the manufacturing process. Sprayer in a controlled chamber then the protector baked in. :roll:

Nope sprayed on the move, just ahead of the walking inspector as he checked the carpet with a cigarette in his mouth. :shock:

I agree with Lisa in that I hate added more water to the carpet. Solvent seems like a better carrier for the protectant but who wants to be responsible for appling solvent to the carpet? Iseeru

 

[renegade_cowboy]

If the nuns taught me one thing, it was tolerance of other's beliefs. Even if I think some of your customers would be better served if you offered a protector, your choice is your choice. You just can't argue that everyone should believe what you do, as you end up taking an indefensible position that you are then forced to defend.

We've paid to have our products and procedure tested by Argus Pacific, a local OSHA compliance training and testing facility. We used water and solvent carried products, applied with a 6008 tip at low pressure. They found that there was no electronically detectable drift of product away from the spray stream and use of a respirator when applying was not required or suggested. But, there I go pushing that science thing again.

We offer Teflon and some private label products that use Zonyl, the DuPont in-house name for their fluorochemical. We sell it for .19 psf and offer no guarantees. "It helps carpet stay better lookiing longer, and can allow you time to blot up a spill before it becomes a stain. If you kick over a coffeepot and leave it, you're probably going to have to call us to get the stain out." We often suggest just treating the high-use areas rather than every square foot. It's an option that about half our customers want, even here in maximum hair-tearing-anti-chemical-shreiking Seattle.

Great post Bryan... You and your company is highly respected in this area, so your opinion backed by fact is one I would listen too.

 

[Willy P]

3. Yes, though certainly not as much and it works!



Sent from my DROIDX using Tapatalk 2

I call BULLSHIT. Known fact - olefin and protector are only compatible to PROFIT FOR THE COMPANY, NOT THE CONSUMER. You're ripping off your customers. And that's a fact, like it or not.

 

[Ken Snow]

Because you say it, does not make it a known fact- your lack of class does confirm something though.

 

[Willy P]

Because you say it, does not make it a known fact- your lack of class does confirm something though.

Fill this out in triplicate:

 

[ruff]

It is funny how things get twisted around here:

Holy crap- some days our guys will go through 2 per truck! You guys are leaving a lot of $ on the table and not serving your customers well in my opinion.

First Ken, who accuses people who do not apply protector as "not serving their clients well," cries wolf.

Here's a critical things to remember; what you've decided to believe about protectants doesn't matter. Not one bit. If you're part of the cult of I Hate Protectors, facts won't change your mind, but they might keep others from joining. How protectors work is provable. It's science.

And then the” scientist” ignores legitimate scientific concerns. That’s a hoot.

Nobody here, Bryan, claims that protectors, in the short term do not cause liquids to bid. We know they do.
What we doubt is it's long term performance. And, much more important is what both Ken and you conveniently and consistently ignore, which is it’s potential long term effects on our body and organs.

So, to be intellectually honest Bryan and Ken, you need to address these issues. Unless of course you plan on running for office, in which case ignoring what is not convenient to answer, goes well with the territory- and that my friends has been proven scientifically every day in congress.
Calling the issue: “even here in maximum hair-tearing-anti-chemical-shreiking Seattle,” may be entertaining. Hey, I understand ridicule. I even chuckled Ivebeensold discretely.

Kind of reminds me a little of the tobacco companies CEOs. I bet they still claim that nicotine spiked cigarettes are not addictive.

Oh, and feel free to ignore any inconvenient issues. Yours truly- And tearing the little hair I got left, here in the sunny, bleeding heart liberal, left coast of the lovely state of CA.

 

[Ken Snow]

Re: Re: Who DOESN'T sell protectors?

[quote="Ken Snow":3kx1agqk]Because you say it, does not make it a known fact- your lack of class does confirm something though.

Fill this out in triplicate:

[/quote:3kx1agqk]
:roll:

Sent from my DROIDX using Tapatalk 2

 

[The Great Oz]

Affects of any product on your body are always a legitmate concern. One of the reasons we did testing was to protect our own people.

Have fluorochemicals been found in people's bodies? Yep. Know how they got there? Most likely from food packaging. Teflon is what makes cake mix slide out so easy and keeps kettle chips from leaking grease through the "all natural paper" bag.

Food producers are moving away from fluorochemical packaging to a plasticizer coating even though all medical studies have shown the fluoro-residue to be inert. It may be that in ten years everyone that eats potato chips will have plasticizer in their bodies instead.

You'll find the scariest fluoro-stories on the internet are produced by a con organization called "The Environmental Working Group." They make their money attacking chemical producers and hit a gold mine when paid to write scary garbage about Teflon by the Teamsters union. The Teamsters want to force DuPont to accept the union in their manufacturing plants, and even had teamsters reps at Connections passing out EWG junk science flyers.

It's an evil world, eh?

Don't want to get sideways on the issue though Ofer, thanks for your tolerance.

 

[Willy P]

Don't like plain spoken people Ken? I say what I think and don't give a shit who thinks what. That's honesty.

Funny thing Today I had a customer ask me about "spot guard". I explained that is was a waste as her carpets were olefin and I felt it wouldn't work. She smiled and said "That's why we use you. We TRUST your judgement" True, I don't make enough to buy fancy swishy pants, but I do OK.
And I know I'm not spraying a MARKED TOXIC CHEMICAL where her 3 year old romps around. I call it conscience.

Did you fill those forms out yet?

 

[Ken Snow]

I have nothing but respect for plain spoken people, and nothing but disdain for classless ones.

We have customers thank us all the time as well when we make recommendations that help them save money or their furnishings. I'm glad to know you do too.

Ken
Ps swishies are very economical- $25 and I've been wearing them for years.

Sent from my DROIDX using Tapatalk 2

 

[ruff]

It's an evil world, eh?

Don't want to get sideways on the issue though Ofer, thanks for your tolerance.

Thank you for your graceful advise when I needed help.
Much appreciated.

P.S. here is a study by a non cuckoo source, that as far as I know does not try to strong arm or get a better union deal: http://www.cancer.org/Cancer/CancerCaus ... acid--pfoa
The American Cancer Society.
And yes, there is no conclusive finding (no smoking gun) however, there is enough reason for concern.

 

[ruff]

I have nothing but respect for plain spoken people

Now, if we are talking real plain spoken. it may be time for Connor and Ladwig to make their cameo appearances.

Be quiet Marty.

 

[Jim Nelson]

[quote="Jim Nelson":3nbzbb56][quote="sam miller":3nbzbb56]I was getting teflon advanced from chemspec delivered to my house at distributor prices.

So i wold sell it at $10.00 per room make a little and use when a customer requested it.

Did a job for a lady and sprayed it everywhere the next day she caled with an emergency her autistic daughter was helping with

putting things back and broke a whole bottle of wine in the dinning room. Red wine I went over did a light steam and it all came out.

I love stain blocker that clear dye that keeps the red out.

I charged her $50 for my minimum

at the time and she gave $200 cash.

Even of you dont like the soil repellent side the stain resistant stuff works.

so for those who use/sell protector.....what kind of guarantee do you offer with it......

This is my guarantee when this happens I come and clean for free.[/quote:3nbzbb56]

is there a time limit...[/quote:3nbzbb56]
No there is no time limit. I am not fearful of people abusing my guarantee. I treat people the way i would like to be treated thats why I say I will come back free. I have a lady with 8 kids the job was I think about $900. After the cleaning a kid gets sick on the carpet I go suck it up it takes me 15 min. No big deal. A day or two she has another sick kid I go suck it up free. When the 3rd kid gets sick I go and this time she insist on paying me.Let me say this I don't sell protectors It was a customer 15 years ago who wanted it and she sold me on it. So I don't sell it I offer it if they want it I have it if not they get clean carpet for one price. What I see hear over an over is the cleaners hear can not get the carpet dry all this talk about soaking the carpet is BS an then soaking it with protectors . You all haves the badass TMs but you cant get the water out of the carpet you all drive me ******* nuts.

 

[Dolly Llama]

what product do you use, Jim?
and if water based, at what application rate ?
300sf or gal RTU?


..l.T.A.

 

[Able 1]

[quote="Brian H":2dsrswjk]This thread is getting beyond ridiculous!!!

We have tested the protector we use several times over the years and yes, it does work.

How did you test it?[/quote:2dsrswjk]

 

[Able 1]

If you don't think Scotchgard works, visit the Stanley Steemer headquarters in Ohio. I'm not sure it's still there but when I went there in the 90's the front hallway was always protected on one half while the other half was not. Guess what. The unprotected side was trashed. The protected side looked pretty good for it's age. There was a BIG difference. I had a customer just this morning ask for it on her white carpet because it slowed down the traffic lane dirt when I applied it last time. Test it yourself on a job that you do frequently. Treat one side for several cleanings and see the difference. If you keep your sprayer low while you apply it you can't even smell it so you're probably not breathing it. And you do know that we're trying to fill the dye sites of the fiber so they don't accept other colored dyes as in fruit and drinks.

Do you think they just might over protect that hall, just to give tech's confidence in the BS they are selling?

 

[Art Kelley]

If you don't think Scotchgard works, visit the Stanley Steemer headquarters in Ohio. I'm not sure it's still there but when I went there in the 90's the front hallway was always protected on one half while the other half was not. Guess what. The unprotected side was trashed. The protected side looked pretty good for it's age. There was a BIG difference. .

Do you think they just might over protect that hall, just to give tech's confidence in the BS they are selling?

Scothgard might actually neutralize the chemical soup SS leaves on a carpet and make the emulsfier residue less sticky and dirt attracting. So maybe it is a good thing to apply for the one step cleaners.

 

[Willy P]

I have nothing but respect for plain spoken people, and nothing but distain (DISDAIN AS WELL? for classless ones.

I've got lots of class - it's all low though.




Sent from my DROIDX using Tapatalk 2

 

[Ken Snow]

LOL- thanks for the typo correction Willy. Pretty funny how the longest threads tend to go nowhere except back and forth with nobody convincing anyone else.

 

[ruff]

You're right Ken, that is almost always the case.

However, this is why we like this rowdy board.

We are mostly wrong (especially the others )
Though we think we're always right.
It never lacks for drama.
And it is always entertaining.

P.S. Now, give me a call and I'll let you know how to really run your business

 

[Desk Jockey]

We are mostly wrong (especially the others )

:shock:

 

[Willy P]

LOL- thanks for the typo correction Willy. Pretty funny how the longest threads tend to go nowhere except back and forth with nobody convincing anyone else.

k]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XoS-MCnTPtQk]

 

[Desk Jockey]

Looks just like you Willy.........oh wait that was his ASS. :shock:

Sorry never mind!




:mrgreen:

 

[Willy P]

Looks just like you Willy.........oh wait that was his ASS. :shock:

Sorry never mind!




:mrgreen:

Here's a close up for you. Yes, that looks like me.