BlueLine Thermalwave2 summer/fall project

[BIG WOOD]

I’m taking it to the forklift later this week to move it. Rubber mats underneath are getting pulled up.

The waste tank was behind it but I think I’m gonna move it to the left side of the machine for better mounting space and ease of access to the rear and right side of the machine.

The van needs a power steering fluid reservoir, a tuneup, and a new rear door

As for the tm, the water pump needs tlc, and the 185f thermal relief valve needs replaced. . Once I get it completed, we’ll see what other issues it might have

 

[Nomad74]

Fred I really appreciate you doing all that research for me. It helped me target areas to inspect and get the problem solved.

IS it all fixed?

 

[BIG WOOD]

IS it all fixed?

Right now, everything but the ecu if I’m correct

 

[BIG WOOD]

I’d love to hear their excuse on why they thought it was wise to mount it less than 2 inches away from the engine block with those terrible, barely vented side covers holding the heat in cooking that ECU.

And for those out west over 100f…

 

[Mike J]

Fred and Matt- This thread is awesome. I have a 2005 Blueline Thermalwave 5M. Nissan. It is my backup truck now, but will always be my baby.

Your tech talk is awesome. I wanted to rebuild my Thermalwave, but dont have the means. Just wanted to offer I have an extra computer (zenith). I also have a little inventory.

Not sure if our machines are compatible or not?

 

[BIG WOOD]

Fred and Matt- This thread is awesome. I have a 2005 Blueline Thermalwave 5M. Nissan. It is my backup truck now, but will always be my baby.

Your tech talk is awesome. I wanted to rebuild my Thermalwave, but dont have the means. Just wanted to offer I have an extra computer (zenith). I also have a little inventory.

Not sure if our machines are compatible or not?

Thanks for the offer. I'm not certain where your ecu is located, but if your machine is a spare, I'd hate for yours to crap on you like this one and you'd need it. Mine will be here in 1-2 business days

 

[Mike J]

Thanks for the offer. I'm not certain where your ecu is located, but if your machine is a spare, I'd hate for yours to crap on you like this one and you'd need it. Mine will be here in 1-2 business days

Zenith?

 

[Mike J]

Thanks for the offer. I'm not certain where your ecu is located, but if your machine is a spare, I'd hate for yours to crap on you like this one and you'd need it. Mine will be here in 1-2 business days

top by the fuel "stuff" is location. My machine has no covers, since im the only one that runs it, safety not an issue. (knock on wood). So it is not covered now. And I got one on the shelf.

 

[Mike J]

Also, one issue that caused me to order the new cpu was ground wire to the van itself went bad. Some wierd shutdowns and rpm varies at first. Got my electrical engineer on that one and dialed in on the diodes. (never knew what they were).

The inconsistent running of the TW was so hard to figure. (to shorten the post i wont go into all the wierd symptoms). The my van would not start periodically and got progressivley worse. Called the tow truck but started after a 15 minute rest so I got it to mechanic.

Sure enough it was the ground to the van itself that was rusted away. Simple fix and never looked back. Thing been running like new and the van starts all the time.

So now I have a backup CPU, it was never the issue, and the diodes were not the problem. All about the main ground.

 

[BIG WOOD]

Almost ready.

Did a couple needs today to get this machine usable.

Hey Fred, can you put somewhere in my thread title “Money Pit”?

Purchased the van originally for $7500 and before all this is finished, $13k should be the finishing cost of van and machine.

View attachment 111632 View attachment 111633

that doesn't sound like much of a money pit........yet

I’m up to $20k now

You’re right, $13k wasn’t that bad then.

 

[BIG WOOD]

With my luck lately on these machines, I'm preparing for the worst case scenario if it should happen in the near future.

If the engine fails, P.S.I gave me the contact information on who sells the discontinued new and remanufactured GM1.6 engines
The new one is $6295 with no core charge
The remanufactured is $3995 with a core charge

Budget Engine Rebuilders
773-586-3577 Glenn

I hope this information will help someone else, should they need another engine. I think the Titan 875 uses the same engine as well for anyone who has one of those

 

[FredC]

did you check the plugs?

 

[BIG WOOD]

did you check the plugs?

Yep. The gap is supposed to be .031-.035. It read .035 and I just installed the new fuel pressure regulator manifold on the fuel rail underneath with no improvements.

What else could be causing the lean/hot fuel burning?

 

[FredC]

The Air/Fuel ratio sensor...


did all the plugs look like that one?


and how did PSI describe that piece you just installed?

 

[BIG WOOD]

Manifold w/f/temp is what’s on the receipt

I think 3 out of the 4 plugs were that way

Where is the air fuel ratio sensor?

 

[FredC]

Where is the air fuel ratio sensor?

That is what an O2 sensor is...


The ECM uses the signal from the O2 sensor to adjust the A/F ratio

 

[hogjowl]

Just what every Tm needs

 

[FredC]

Proper A/F ratio? Seems like a good idea

 

[hogjowl]

Of course
It sounds great

 

[BIG WOOD]

That is what an O2 sensor is...


The ECM uses the signal from the O2 sensor to adjust the A/F ratio

Should I unplug both the 02 sensors, run the machine, then check the plugs after to see if it’s burning lean?

 

[FredC]

no...you should check the voltage on the signal wire (search youtube).......and maybe pull them out and inspect

the one before the cat



*edit: pulling the sensor connector will run in open loop relying on the programmed maps to control a/f which may not be any better....although likely richer (so I suppose you could just to see how much it glows or doesn't)..multimeter is better
** o2 sensors are good for 30-50k in cars so say 1k -1700 hours on a TM....ymmv

 

[Living The Dream]

Is this the unit you adjusted the fuel pressure on?

 

[BIG WOOD]

Is this the unit you adjusted the fuel pressure on?

Yes, I've been trying to increase it, but since the entire fuel system has been replaced, except the fuel injectors, I don't know what else it could be. the only reason I haven't replaced the injectors is the fuel pressure was tested before them.

But if this pressure is meant to run like this, it might be the injectors. I've been trying to get in touch with the service dept. at PSI to confirm what the operating pressure should be, but they won't answer the phone at service, nor call me back.
but the parts guy will pick up on the first ring!

 

[FredC]

Yes, I've been trying to increase it, but since the entire fuel system has been replaced, except the fuel injectors, I don't know what else it could be.

Are you still getting code 91 after clearing/reset? If so what voltage are you getting at the map sensor? You could have something internal that could result in low map voltage like a burned valve. Of course, that can be a symptom of the engine running too lean in the first place and a bit of a red herring.

As far as fuel pressure/flow I'm still not sure where and when you are checking. Is it before the map manifold? Key on pressure should be higher according to everything I can find but PSI would need to confirm. This would seem to indicate something in line like the pump (voltage), filter, etc

If the pressure is actually correct possibly clogged injectors but I would expect to see more variation in the plugs (not all injectors in the same state). What did the odd plug look like?

The upstream O2/ AF ratio sensor is also a good candidate for a lean condition which could also cause low map voltage. Another one I'd expect to throw a code but maybe not. This is where I would start.

Lastly timing. The computer really should adjust for this but I suppose it's possible there is an issue (timing can certainly cause hot EGTs**). You can make sure the timing marks line up on the front of the engine. On the back there should be a crank trigger /hall effect sensor that controls ignition which could be faulty.



and you're sure there are no air leaks? or exhaust manifold leaks



you could always break down and get the program to hook up the laptop



** do you have an ir thermometer

 

[BIG WOOD]

When I get time this weekend I'll check all that. Yes, it still pulls up code 91. I think the reset is just unplugging the battery for 5min, and haven't done that yet.

As for where I tested the fuel pressure:
Right after the fuel pump: 70psi
After the manifold map sensor about 3ft away on the new fuel injector hose next to the machine: 32-35psi
It cuts the pressure in half.

I got on the phone with PSI tech support today and they confirmed that the required Operating pressure has to be between 41-47psi. So I sent him the serial number of my engine and waiting to get further support back from him

 

[FredC]

ask PSI what the correct procedure for measuring fuel pressure is

my understanding is that on engines without a regulator the ecm modulates the fuel pump to control pressure.

The manifold just seems to be a bleed circuit (image I sent a few days ago)

btw how is your pump wired?

 

[BIG WOOD]

ask PSI what the correct procedure for measuring fuel pressure is

my understanding is that on engines without a regulator the ecm modulates the fuel pump to control pressure.

The manifold just seems to be a bleed circuit (image I sent a few days ago)

btw how is your pump wired?

The pump just has two wires +and-

I told the service guy about how the pump read 70psi at the pump and dropped in half after the manifold. He said it needs to be 41-47 going to the injectors

You are correct, the manifold is just there to relief the pressure after the machine shuts down by sending it back to the tank

I hope to know more once he looks up the engine's serial numbers

 

[BIG WOOD]

Yes but I meant in what state. Is that just key on, idle, etc

Yeah, I asked him about that and he said while the engine was running, not the boost in pressure when you turn the key on for the first second

 

[Living The Dream]

Did you replace the fuel regulator? Did gas quit coming out the vac line if you replaced it?

 

[FredC]

Did you replace the fuel regulator? Did gas quit coming out the vac line if you replaced it?

My understanding is it doesn't have a regulator.

It has a manifold before the rail with a fuel pressure sensor/map on it. That sends a signal to the ecu which controls the fuel pressure by modulating the fuel pump ground/-. **


Edit: this is why I asked about the fuel pump wiring thinking maybe somebody rewired it where it doesn't get controlled by the ecm....but like I said I don't understand how that would cause the drop


Thermalwave fuel pump wiring





**I'm basing this on a description of another engine/application though

 

[BIG WOOD]

Did you replace the fuel regulator? Did gas quit coming out the vac line if you replaced it?

I need to do a test just to see if gas comes out of that vac line while it runs to see if that’s why the pressure is low